Building Trust Through Actions | Mike Schentrup

[00:00:00]

Mike Schentrup: I don't have to follow the rules I give you. That doesn't work. You're not going to get people who are engaged and, and want to see whatever you're doing succeed because to them it's become much more transactional.

Sadaf Beynon: Welcome to Conversations That Grow the show where we explore how the right conversations can shape our business leadership and even the way we see the world. I'm Sadaf Beynon, and today I'm joined by Mike Schentrup. Mike is a retired police captain who spent 25 years at the Gainesville Police Department leading major case investigations and building leadership experience across a wide range of communities and challenges.

After retiring, he launched Advanced Police Concepts, a training company that now serves agencies across the country. Mike's journey from law enforcement to entrepreneurship is packed with lessons about leadership, influence, and the power of meaningful conversations. It's great to have you on the show, Mike.

Thanks for being here.[00:01:00]

Mike Schentrup: Yeah, I am glad, uh, I, I'm glad I could be here.

and, um, I'm excited. I think this is really neat.

Sadaf Beynon: Thank you, Mike. Can you think of a conversation you had maybe during your time in law enforcement or building your business that really shifted the way you think about leadership?

Mike Schentrup: I think there's, you know, I had a pretty long career in, um, in law enforcement, 25 years, and I. I had numerous mentors over that time, um, that really, uh, guided me. And, and when I say mentors, to me a mentor is as much the conversation as it is much the modeling, right? How are you modeling behavior? Um, if I'm looking up to you, I wanna look up to somebody who is demonstrating and being the person that I maybe would, uh, aspire to be at some point in my career.

Um, so I don't know if it's all about one conversation [00:02:00] or picking out the right people to model your behavior over around and seeing what they do, seeing, and then asking really good questions like, how did that happen? How did that work? And um, and then sometimes you have, they have those tough conversations with you regarding, um.

How you're performing your, your personal behavior. Maybe you disappointed them, um, just a little bit, right? And, um, that's the last thing you want to do to somebody look up to is disappoint them. So, I don't know if it's one conversation in my mind or just a a, a series of people, and I can count 'em on one hand, who just demonstrated behavior.

That I admire and I wanted to be more like that person. And hopefully, you know, and as you get older and your career moves forward,

there's people to ex aspire to

be what you're modeling now. So, and I think

that happened at, [00:03:00] towards the end of my career and I, I had some people, you know, and tell me, um, as far as the mentoring and stuff.

So that's really a great shift in your life to where you see yourself as the mentee. And then as you move forward, hopefully you can become that mentor and model the behavior, um, that other people now are aspiring to.

Sadaf Beynon: Thank you, Mike. I, I really love what you've said there. I think you're right that actually sometimes the modeling part is even more important than the conversation itself because it's practicing what you preach, right?

Mike Schentrup: Yeah. I mean, you can't, that's the worst. Um, I mean, if you, from a leadership standpoint, right, from a a, if you're a person who runs a business, being a hypocrite is by far the worst thing you can be called, or that's a demonstration of your behavior, whatever that thing is. Right where you're telling people to do one thing but you're doing something, you're not modeling, whatever that behavior [00:04:00] is, just 'cause you're the boss.

I don't have to follow the rules I give you. That doesn't work. Um, I mean, it does work. I mean, you still have authority over other people, but you're not going to get people who are really, um, engaged and, and want to see whatever you're doing succeed because to them it's become much more transactional.

You want to have a experience where people are, um, not only engaged but inspired, right? And they're, and they don't wanna let you down because they see how hard you're working and you're demonstrating everything that you're telling them to do, and you're leading from the front. Um, and that's the kind of environment. And those environments are not easy, right? I will be the first one to say, as a captain, you know, did I fail at demonstrating whatever behavior I wanted every single time? For sure. Right. Did I sneak out early when I know I should't have Yes. Right. And hopefully I had those

conversations when I told people, Hey, [00:05:00] listen, today I gotta get outta here, um, a little bit early for whatever reason.

So we have those things that occur, but that the, the trust level is, is, is destroyed when you don't do what you say, right? When you either don't follow through on your own personal commitments. Or you don't demonstrate the behavior you're asking others to, uh, perform.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, It's very much about living the leadership rather than just commanding, isn't it?

Mike Schentrup: Yeah, I mean, leadership really is, you know, we talk about it in this idea of like in a, uh, leadership role, like something you're designated, but all the behaviors that. Come from being a great leader, are the same behaviors that just come from being a really good human being and a good father, a good friend, good, um, husband.

Um, all those same things apply. And it's a funny story because I really started diving into leadership, [00:06:00] um, and self-help books probably when I was in my early thirties maybe, uh, yeah, probably about 32, 33. And, um, then I started talking it, and you're talking to other people about it and you're starting to learn and you're trying to get better.

Then you make a mistake. You're like, I could have done that better. And this is why. Then one day my wife just like, you know, just like great, um, partners do. She looked at me and she says, all that leadership stuff you talk about at work, why don't you use that in the family as well? And I was like, oh God.

Yeah. Right. Um, you know, at work I'm talking about all these ideas of how to build coalitions and, and make people wanna be part of the team and all these things. And at home I'm a dictator to my own children. Right. I'm not doing any of those things.

It's,

um, I tell

you why to do

something, [00:07:00] uh, or I tell you to do something.

You don't ask why, but at work, I'm preaching to other people. You have to explain the why. So I don't think you have to explain the why to a 5-year-old, but once they become teenagers and stuff, I think maybe you can take 15, 20 seconds to explain those aspects to 'em. And, uh, yeah, she knew, uh, she definitely opened my eyes on that, uh, on that day.

Sadaf Beynon: She sounds like a wise woman.

Mike Schentrup: She, yeah.

Sadaf Beynon: I also liked what you said about um, you know, when you've got a mentor and you look up to them, You also don't wanna disappoint them. And it's that, You know, the holding up a mirror image that you gave about, um, having those tough conversations, that's a really

important part of, um, these conversations as well, isn't '

it?

Mike Schentrup: You know, they're the hardest thing to do because, um, in business and in wherever your workplace, nobody wants to have difficult conversations with, [00:08:00] um, employees. Um, I mean, the better relationship you have with another human being, the, the easier the talks sometimes are. They're still difficult, but if the other person really knows that you want them to improve and you have their best interests in mind, when you're having this conversation, the conversation can be productive.

But in general, humans do not take criticism well. And it's come, it goes back to those ideas of some threat, whatever caveman type stuff. I'm talking the same thing. It may not be a dinosaur ready to eat you, but when you have somebody coming to you and telling you like you're not doing a good job, or you're failing in these aspects.

Yeah, that those same bodily things, that little bit of an adrenaline dump and your fear circuitry kind of going still kick in. And if you're not prepared for it, which most people don't prepare themselves, it [00:09:00] kind of takes over their body and that's why they get this defensiveness and stuff. So, um, creating really good relationships with your teammates makes that easier, but it's still not that easy.

Right. Um. And everybody shies away from it. And then when they do finally say they have to have the conversation, they wonder why they went

so off the

tracks, right? Because you gotta just always be guiding people in the right direction. And um, and every time you see them a little bit doing something that just isn't quite right, you gotta try to steer 'em in the right spot.

'cause once you wait to the end. They could be way off track and those are the hardest ones to get back on track.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. Yeah. It's those ongoing conversations, isn't it?

Mike Schentrup: Yeah, right.

Sadaf Beynon: Hmm. Thank you Mike. I love that. It's amazing actually how these relationships that you talk about can leave such a lasting impact on the [00:10:00] way we, we lead or carry ourselves in our businesses. I'd love to rewind the tape a little bit actually and hear about your journey in law

enforcement.

Mike Schentrup: Yeah, so, um, I always wanted to be a police officer, so that's not, I didn't fall into the job. I went to, um, university of Florida. In Gainesville and, um, went there for criminal justice, graduated, and the market, the, uh, job market in 1993 was when I graduated, was not great. And becoming a police officer was a lot harder than I thought it was going to be.

I didn't realize how many people applied for these jobs. I wasn't really prepared for that. So it took me about a year to get a job, um, and go to the police academy. Which I did. Um, I ended up gonna the police academy here in Gainesville because I met my wife at the University of Florida. And, uh, we decided to settle down here.

We liked the communities. Um, and that's it. I got hired after that, uh, by the Gainesville, Florida Police [00:11:00] Department. It's the only place I've ever worked. And just like anybody else, you know, you started in a patrol function and you work as a patrol officer, and I liked working night shift. Um. And, uh, ultimately I got out, was a lucky enough to get on the SWAT team and, um, be a field training officer.

So all those things were really building blocks for me of how I wanted my career to go. Um, I got lucky after about six years and I went to, uh, become a major case investigator, which was really turned out to be the love of my career was investigations. I didn't really know that until I got there. And I didn't realize what I was missing, and I absolutely loved it.

I loved the, the game of chasing bad guys and putting pieces together and, you know, breadcrumbs chasing the trail of where they may be hiding or what they may have been do doing. Um, and I loved interviewing and I loved interrogating, [00:12:00] uh, suspects. Um, and I did that for almost seven years until I got promoted.

So, and most law enforcement in. The United States, if you, once you get promoted to like a supervisor level, they want you to go back into the patrol environment, which I did, but not very long. Um, they asked me to start Gainesville's first gang unit, which I did. And um, that's when I really fell in love with small team dynamics.

Um, the first team I had, I didn't get to pick, but the second team. We created a special operations unit, I got to pick everybody. And at that point I'm like, this is the best ever. Like I get to pick my own team. Um, and I learned then is that I don't need somebody who's really, really smart. I need somebody who's really, really motivated, has a great work ethic, and wants to go out and get better and do work and learn, and [00:13:00] then I can coach 'em.

Right? So I, I, that's why I drafted. I drafted coachable people. Who were highly motivated. And um,

and really what we did is we liked to go out there and work every day. And that, that was probably one of the best times of my career. 'cause I could mold the leadership aspect with the mentoring and the coaching and seeing the, the development of these young investigators getting better.

And most all of them, the team lasted. Um, I got promoted to a lieutenant after about six months, and I think part of it's a tribute to the huge success that team was. But, um, all those folks be turned out to be really good investigators down the road. So it was great seeing in the beginning of their career to learning how to do things and talked to people and, and chase that trail of breadcrumbs and some of the things like that.

So, small team supervision or small, working in a small unit. Where there's a lot of cohesion is, [00:14:00] is, uh, super rewarding. Um, I got promoted to lieutenant, went back to patrol as a shift commander. You know, I'm probably supervised about 25 people at that point. And I did that for about a year and a half until I got promoted to Criminal Investigations commander, um, which was again, you know, I loved investigations.

Now getting to be the boss. Um. And take all those things I learned coaching, mentoring, improving, developing teams, knowing what to recruit, knowing what teammates to add. Um, it was, uh, that was awesome. That was a awesome moment for me. Um, and it was the first time I started, uh, supervising civilians. So I'd never, everybody I'd ever supervised was all sworn officers.

So there was definitely a little bit of different dynamic now, and I had my own staff assistant. I'm like, she's like, what do [00:15:00] you want me to do? I'm like, I have no idea. What do you do? She's like, well, I answer the phones and I take messages for you. And I work on your calendar. I'm like, okay, don't do any of that.

I can answer my own phone. I definitely don't want you touching my calendar. Right. I can handle my own. So yeah, learning to delegate right now I gotta learn how to delegate to a staff assistant. Now I have to supervise civilians who brought some different challenges. Um, and then finally I got promoted to captain and um, went and it was no longer in investigations.

I had a little bit of a role to play and. Fighting crime. I was in charge of crime analysis. I was asked to build a realtime crime center. I was the emergency manager. So when we had hurricanes and then covid hit, those were some, those were some really, taught me more about communication, um, internal crisis communication than anything.

Uh, and it, it kind of [00:16:00] started with hurricanes. Um, but those were very short time spans. Covid taught me as much about crisis communication as anything. Um, because I was the lead communicator for our organization. You know, we had about 400 employees and they were, and we were trying to give out daily updates.

'cause if you don't, you remember in the beginning of Covid. Things were changing like by the hour. So some days there were two updates because every, like, what do you do if this happens? What do you do if that happens? Oh, this is closed. Oh, we have a new requirement, mandates, whatever those things are. Um, that taught me a lot and I'm glad I went through it.

It was tough, but it definitely opened my eyes to how to communicate in those types of situations. And um, and then you just saw the concern on people's faces and. For me,

like the idea of me catching Covid was like that. I didn't care. Um, [00:17:00] even early, I didn't think it would be that big of a deal, but then I had to worry about catching covid and bringing it home to my mom and dad who were living with me, and they were both in their eighties, so, okay.

So that concerns you, but then seeing the fear in other people's eyes, right. I mean, and then realizing like, Mike, you can't project how you feel about it to other people. Right. This person is like freaking out that they may have been exposed. I'm talking about early on when they thought if you were in the same, you know, vicinity, a hundred yards of somebody, of Covid, you may catch

it.

Right. Um,

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Mike Schentrup: so, uh, again, empathy had to learn. You know, I had to learn to bite my tongue and realize like, just because you don't feel that way, you still have to understand. Other people may feel that way. Um. So those were some things I definitely learned during the pandemic, um, from a leadership command and communication aspect

Sadaf Beynon: Hmm. [00:18:00] Awesome. What were some of the biggest leadership lessons then that you took away from that experience?

Mike Schentrup: during Covid.

Sadaf Beynon: Um, well, I guess within your,

in your journey, in your, in the police

department, you are, you know, you

were building and leading teams. You were talking about crisis communication and that there was a lot

there that.

Mike Schentrup: Yeah. Oh, I mean, you know, just in, in some of these, you know, I teach in my classes, so that's why they probably pop into my mind, um, really quickly. Uh, one thing I would say is, as a boss, you're gonna run into a situation where somebody really makes you mad, right? I mean, you, they are gonna have done something.

That you say to yourself, I cannot believe they did this again. Right? And you are going to want to jump on your keyboard and shoot out an email, or you're going to want to call them into your office or get [00:19:00] on the phone or Zoom or whatever it is. And I've done that and that is not successful, I can assure you, right?

Because. In, in the one instance I talk about in my class is that I did not gain enough information first before I jumped to a conclusion or what we call a knee jerk reaction, right? before, listen, you have got to calm down, get as much information about the situation that occurred. Do a little bit of research first before you address the situation.

I tell people you have to like. Know your intent is your intent to, you know, like vent on them and berate them and tell them, you know, how much you, they've disappointed you or is your intent to get the behavior to stop whatever that behavior was. Right? Um, but you really first have to gain, get information.

And [00:20:00] once you get information, sometimes it changes your mind about how you're going to deal with it. Not to mention you've given yourself some time to calm down. So, uh, that was one for sure that. I definitely messed up and in that same incidence I learned that when you make a mistake and you own your mistake and then you apologize for it, I believe apologizing in, in admitting a mistake and apologizing could be the biggest trust builder with other humans, right?

People understand we make mistakes, people. Want you to admit that you made a mistake and um, and then apologize if it affected somebody else, another human being, right? That's when you apologize. But you should always be willing to make a, uh, admit your, you made a mistake. It does not show weakness. In fact, it probably shows strength.

I mean, I believe there's a lot of talk about what's like the most important aspect

of [00:21:00] leadership. You know, I think trust is still the most

important, but there's a lot of people who say humility

is the most important, right? Um,

being

humble. So whether they're equal one's a

little bit above the

other, who cares, right?

I think the, they're two, the, I mean, if you have two pillars of leadership, you can go with trust and humility and they work hand in hand. Um, stick with those. And a part of being humble is admitting when you're wrong.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I like, I like what you've said there and actually when you were talking, I was thinking about what your wife had said about how you can use, you can apply the same principles at home. And things like a knee jerk reaction are so easy to come to us as parents, aren't they?

And um,

but taking that time to respond and just let things

settle before you do. and as you said

too very wisely for

taking responsibility for our actions or our words, whatever it is.

Mike Schentrup: yeah, I learned as a parent, I stopped saying [00:22:00] the word no. Like, I didn't use the word no anymore, right? So if somebody asked if they could do something, um, if it was a yes, then it's a yes. If it's um, if I have a feeling like it's not going to happen, I say, alright, gimme a chance to think about it. No.

So I took out the word no and said, gimme a chance to think about it. Because what happens as a parent, and I, I've learned, of course I learned this the hard way. What happens as a parent is you say, no. And then they say, but why not? Da, da, da, da da. And then you think about it a little more and you're like, oh, that's really not that big of a deal.

Maybe I should have let him do it. Then you change your mind, right? So, um. Yeah, as a parent, right? Don't ever say no. So can this transfer over into adult world? Of course. Like if an employee comes in and they give you an idea, you know, even if you think

it's probably never [00:23:00] going to

happen, don't say no.

Just

say, Hey,

gimme a day. And then when you have a day, go back to them. And it's, the answer might still be no. But what you don't want to do is create an environment where you're. Knee-jerk reaction is no. And then sometimes you go back and you're like, oh, well maybe I thought about it and it's okay.

Right. So, um, it also shows a little bit of wisdom and patience

too if you don't automatically say no.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. And I think it also gives the other person or your child to have a chance to think about what they've asked, and they're all, you know, I think they're better prepared for a no if you take the time

Mike Schentrup: right, right. Exactly. Yeah. And then sometimes maybe it's a negotiation like. Well, maybe you can go, but, or, and you're gonna clean your room, whatever those things

Sadaf Beynon: so what did working with different communities teach you about communication? You've talked about civilians, you've talked about a team. You didn't choose a team. You did choose. You've also talked about, um, being on the [00:24:00] SWAT team. And investigations. I think there's so much there. So many different ways

and modes of communication. I'd love to know more about that.

Mike Schentrup: Yeah. You know, I, I think there is something to be said about knowing your audience. Um. So part about knowing your audience is having built relationships with those individuals. Um, I I, I tell people it doesn't matter what team either you're given a team, which a lot of us are, right? Most of us don't choose our own teams.

Um, if you, that's why I said like in my world, when I did it was. Amazing, right? It was amazing. But that's rare that you get to choose your own team. In law enforcement, usually you're assigned to five or six people, or 10 people, or 20 people, whatever those people are. Um, so building even small relationships with them, figuring out what makes them tick, [00:25:00] breaking bread with anybody.

If you break bread with any other human being, you're going to be a little closer to that person than you were before. And when I say breaking bread, it could be a cup of coffee, right? Um, it could be a glass of wine. Whatever that thing is, you're gonna be a little closer to that person than you were before.

And when you create some relationships with another human being, communication gets easier. Communication never gets harder when you know somebody, right? It can only get easier. Um. Unless you don't like the person, I guess, I guess that could get harder. But when you're building a, hoping to build a relationship and, and on the SWAT team you built relationships a little different than you did with a, maybe with a civilian crossing guard who I worked with later.

Right? So, um, I guess that's kind of what it means by kind of knowing your audience, right? I mean, how you build those relationships with individuals. [00:26:00] So anytime you communicate, and I've learned this over the years too, because it affects you as the receiver, but it also affects you as the person who's who's has the communication is that I don't care if you're in interrogation room, if you're interviewing a victim of sexual assault or if you're talking to an employee about a performance issue, you have to create the less anxiety there is in the room, right between less tension.

However you can bring that tension down. You're going to have better communication, right? From a boss employee perspective. That starts with a relationship. But then it also starts with you examining your intent, like I talked about before, and figuring out, you know, are you doing this 'cause you're mad? Or are you doing this 'cause you want to help somebody?

'cause then you can explain it like, listen, I don't think this is that big of a deal. You know, but I just, we need to address this because we have an issue and, and then I think we're gonna move forward really well after this. So [00:27:00] anytime you can bring the tension down between two people, um, you're going to have better communication.

Because in a high stress environment, we know our brains start shutting down. This part, right? This, uh, hearing part. And we now we're start thinking things are going through our mind. We start wondering like, what is the ulterior motive of this person talking to me? I don't really trust this person, right?

Why are they asking me this question? Um, and I've, and I've, and it wasn't until later, but now I look back at some of the people I was having conversations with. And I'm like, they look just like a blank stare at me. And I, and I'm thinking to myself, oh, they're probably listening to me. I must be doing a great job.

And then, you know, you know, years later I look back and I'm like, I don't think they were listening to me at all. In fact, I think they were cussing me out in their brain the entire time we were having this conversa that I thought, and listen it, [00:28:00] it's not even a conversation I tell people, if you're not going back and forth.

That's called a speech, right? You're giving a person a speech

and those aren't,

that's

not effective communication. So it's the hardest thing to teach. It's the hardest thing to learn.

Um, and

you can only do it. I mean, some people are natural though, right? Some people are natural

communicators. I think that starts with empathy. I think that starts

with listening, right?

Um, but most of

us aren't. It's really something you have to

really try to work at. So, and I was one of those people. I'm, I'm probably not great at it.

Sadaf Beynon: Well, you know, it.

kind of goes back to what you were saying at the beginning. Um, it's, it's modeling a certain type of behavior and if you can. Lean on those people who model great communication skills. You can learn from that. And actually that says probably more than the amount of words they could use to teach it. [00:29:00]

Mike Schentrup: Yep, that is for sure. And,

but I mean, again, like anybody else, it's, it's this, it's if you want to learn, right? Most people have no desire. They say they want growth, but they do nothing for growth, right? They watch Netflix and listen to, um, their Spotify music channel or, um, comedians or whatever, and, and I don't blame 'em.

I want people to be

happy. But growth really comes from doing things that make you uncomfortable. And um, and then, you know, looking at somebody else's and what they're modeling and saying to yourself, that's what I want to do, right? Whatever this person's doing. So now I gotta go back to the, my house, look at myself in the mirror and say, why aren't you doing what this person's doing?

And how do I get to that point? Right? Um, but most people don't

Sadaf Beynon: being honest with yourself.

Mike Schentrup: Yeah, I mean, you know, uh, Stephen [00:30:00] Covey, you know, he wrote the great book, uh, seven Habits of Highly Effective People, which is to me still the most important book anybody can read. And he says, um, the hardest person to lead is yourself, right?

And the reason he says that is because we don't really hold ourself accountable, even though we say we do, right? We don't. We give ourself justifications for our behavior. A thousand times every day. Thousands. Right? Just, and if you ever just listen to your brain be like, I should have done this. Oh, well you couldn't do that because you had to do this and really you were really tired and you didn't get a lot of sleep last night.

We give ourselves so many excuses, right? But we say we don't, which is like a double-edged sword. We say we hold ourselves accountable, but we do not. Right? Um, I think some people do better than others, but most people, even me. I mean, I'm like, I don't wanna say I'm a lack of accountability because I know what

I've done and,

and I

know when I'm [00:31:00] justifying my behavior, but I still do it.

So the hardest person to lead is you, because we don't hold ourself accountable, but we wanna hold other

people accountable

for their behavior. And, um, again, most important book anybody can read, it's like half Self-help, half leadership, and, um, and, and I don't care if it's 40 years old, it's still a great book.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. The principles are still true. No, That's good. I liked what you said about knowing your audience. um, being empathetic and listening really well. I think you're right. Those are key to great communication. I'm really fascinated about the breaking bread together. Now, I, I know it's true. but I don't, I don't fully understand why it's so impactful.

Mike Schentrup: I don't know. 'cause to go back to the Bible on the last supper, I mean, if you talk about all the great events in the Bible, a lot of 'em were over a meal, right? Um,

Sadaf Beynon: That's true. [00:32:00]

Mike Schentrup: I mean, food, it's the nourishment. I, I don't know. I don't know if there's science behind it. I can only tell you that. The invitation alone to break bread is important, right?

The invitation to have a lunch together, um, means that you value that person. Um, in a lot of times with our employees, it becomes strictly like this professional business-like relationship, which is good. I don't, you know, we don't, I don't, I'm not talking about like, you don't need to go bowling with them, but.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Mike Schentrup: Can you share a cup of

coffee with them? Can you tell 'em, Hey, you're important enough to me to where we're gonna walk across the street and get a Starbucks

and I'm paying,

by the way, whatever that thing is, right? Whatever they want too. Like, oh, I don't really like Starbucks. Okay, well let's do whatever.

Let's get ice cream at lunch, or for a snack, whatever those things are. But there's something about saying that you're gonna [00:33:00] take some time outta your schedule to make time for them. Um. But it's really like the best way to say thank you. It's just an important, it's so valuable.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. No, I hear you. Mike, listening to you speak, it's clear that those years gave you such a deep understanding of people and leadership, and I know at some point you decided to make a leap into entrepreneurship.

So I'd love for you to tell us about that

shift.

Mike Schentrup: So, uh, you know, a few. I still. It was probably about 2016. Um, I was thinking about getting into, um, more teaching advanced subjects and um, I started kind of researching it a little bit. I was talking to some other trainers and they said, Mike, the first thing you have to do is start LLC limited liability, um, company, corporation.

And um, and that's the first step. So I'm like, do a little research, figure out how to do that. Do that. It's not that complicated. I'm like, okay, now all the [00:34:00] business is just gonna come flooding in 'cause everybody wants to come see me. Well that didn't happen. Right? Of course it doesn't. And uh, so then I had to figure out, okay, I have a LLC, I have a one person paid me to come teach.

Now let me see, how do I build this thing out? And it was just, you know, I tell people, in fact, I did a LinkedIn post one time, about one hour a day. People want to say like, oh, I don't know how to get started. Well, I got started one hour a day, right? I went to work, I went and coached my kids like practices or went to their games.

And then I got back to the house usually about eight 30. And then from eight 30 to nine 30, I was on my laptop. Just randomly emailing people, researching Facebook posts, whatever it was, everybody I could just try to think of, of who to communicate with, who could maybe give me another job. And, um, that was my commitment, my to, to myself January [00:35:00] 1st, 2017.

And lo and behold, by May I had my first decent gig and, um, and performed well and they wanted us back. And then I brought my first. Um, uh, a contractor on with me, a friend of mine who I, I was, he's this and he still teaches with me. He's fantastic. Um,

and then it was from there, you know, it was just a slow process and I really thought I was gonna get out maybe 20 19, 20 20, and then COV hit and I'm like, well, thank God I didn't get out.

We have no jobs all of a sudden, right? Because nobody could meet in person and that's a lot of our classes were in person. But what it forced us to do was to go online. So we went online and started an online training academy, which started to have some success and picked up speed. Um, so you have to be nimble and flexible.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. Yeah.

Mike Schentrup: and then ultimately, you know, for me, you know, I get a pension too, so that's a soft landing. It gave me [00:36:00] opportunity to, um, really explore whether I can make this thing, um, a bigger success. And, um, so I, I pulled the trigger, right? Um, and, and I left the police department at a time when my, both my parents were living with me at home.

They were in their eighties. Um, still had a, my daughter was in middle school, um, in her eighth grade year. She was my youngest. I had, I had four sons too. But, um, you know, life is too short and money doesn't mean everything. So, um, my wife was super supportive and number one, and number two, she's an absolute rockstar.

Like, she, she, um, does very well, really smart. So she says, yeah, go ahead and try it. And you being at home will help out with the, you know, with my parents and other stuff as well. And she's been super supportive. And since then I've hired my first employee and I probably have about 20. People that teach for me, [00:37:00] you know, periodically not, you know, not all the time, but um, as we need 'em.

Um, and it's been really neat and it's been, uh, again, a leadership journey again. 'cause now you're, you're a completely remote company. I mean, I have no headquarters and, um, you're trying to meet, interview people to trust with your brand, um, who want to teach for you. And they randomly just email you and say, Hey, I want to teach for you.

And, and you're like, okay, how do I know? How do I figure it out? How do I, you know, and so recruiting new talent has become, um,

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

Mike Schentrup: you know, it's tough, right? You just don't know how people are gonna perform. And then you have some contractors who are, they go places and they just knock it outta the park. And then you have other contractors who go places and the reviews come back and the, they're like, eh.

So you have to deal with that too. Um, so it's [00:38:00] a, it's a different experience than before. Right.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. Yeah.

Mike Schentrup: I wouldn't trade it for the world. 'cause the business aspect it to me really was, um, an amazing journey. Just learning all these things about

business and how to run a business

and. Balance

sheets and QuickBooks and everything else that goes

into running a, um, a

business and how to do it well and how to market successfully

and search engine optimization and just all these things that you had no idea about that.

And then you have to figure out, is this worth me trying to learn myself or do I hire somebody to do this? Um, it's been a journey for

sure.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, it sounds incredible. It, it really does. And I'm, I am, you know, certain that there was a series of conversations that helped shape and grow your business, but I'm curious, um, was there a mindset shift for you about [00:39:00] influence when moving into your entrepreneurial role?

Mike Schentrup: I mean, I don't, me more about what you mean by influence. What are, what are your. I wanna make sure I answer the

Sadaf Beynon: So I,

Mike Schentrup: way.

Sadaf Beynon: uh, no, that's fine. I think, um, well, I, when I talk about influence, I think as leaders we're our, our leadership extends to any area where we have influence. You know, I don't think it's just because you're at the top, you're, you, um, you know, you're a leader. I think you can have influence.

At home, as your wife

said,

or you know, even if you're coaching or wherever it is,

I think we have, we have a level of influence.

And so I guess my question is, um, when you moved into a different capacity and you still have, you know, you've got people who are teaching for you and they're remote, how does, how does that work for you? Is [00:40:00] there a mindset

Mike Schentrup: Yeah, so for sure, right. I mean, John Maxwell says leadership basically equals influence. Right? So I think I know what you're saying now. That perfect, perfect. The way you explained it,

um, my biggest, um, like my goal, right? My number one goal right now is to help others get better. And I know that sounds like, and, and don't get me wrong, I still wanna make money too, but Right when.

I'm giving some people an opportunity to travel and teach and make decent money. I mean, it's, it's, I tell people, don't come teach for me if you think you're gonna get rich. I think it's a stepping stone to other things. But, um, most everybody who teaches for me has full-time job still. Um, but almost nobody in our business gets to travel around the country and go teach to other people.

Right.

So when I see a spark in somebody and I'm like, this person's really got a [00:41:00] fantastic attitude, really high energy, work ethic, um, and they say they want to come teach for me, and then I give them the opportunity to do that. And then I see the rewards coming back of, um, not just the thank yous and stuff, but seeing them succeed and then seeing the reviews and then seeing them kind of get better at their craft and, and doing that.

Sadaf Beynon: Hmm.

Mike Schentrup: Um, that to me is my biggest reward right now. Um, for sure. So the influence, I hope is the, the building of these individuals and their professional goals and dreams and aspirations to go teach. Um, that's what I hope I'm having on other people, uh, right now. So, and I, and then, and I know I am 'cause I see it and they tell me and.

You know, when people come to me, a lot of people call me and ask me questions about how I built my business, you know, [00:42:00] um, and what do I de, what do I need to do next to be like you? What's the next step? And I tell every, I, I'm an open book, um, I tell people I'll share everything I have except my email list.

I don't give you my email list. That's a, that was hard to build, right? You don't get my email list. You have to work on your own, but. Everything else I will share with you. 'cause I don't believe anybody is in competition with me. I believe there's plenty of people in the space who can go out and bring great content.

Um, I'll never say anything bad about another company or anything like that. Um, because I just, I, I don't, I know that the more that I share, the more that gets come, comes back to me. Right? And I've learned that. The more I try to give away business, the more business comes to me. So if there's like a, it could even be a lucrative contract, but I know I'm just not, my group of instructors is just probably not the right fit for these [00:43:00] folks.

I'm gonna send it to a competitor or somebody who's a collaborator with me on a different project. 'cause, um. I wanna make sure whoever's, you know, trust, they can still come to me and, and say, Hey, can you do this? And could we do it? Sure. Would it be the best?

Probably not. So I'm gonna let

somebody else do it and then I know that'll come back

to me, uh, down the road.

So, um, you

know, whether you call it

karma or whatever you

want to call it, it, it definitely comes around. You know, when you help others

succeed, you will be successful. I guarantee it. If you try to hoard everything yourself. I mean, you might be successful, but it's just a miserable way to live too. I cannot even imagine.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

me either. Um, what I find really fascinating about listening to you speak, I can, um, you're talking about training and helping others, and it echoes back to what you said at the beginning about passing on what you've learned. I. And mentoring, you know, your, the people that you have [00:44:00] influence over, and I think that's great.

Mike Schentrup: Yeah, it's really rewarding. Right? And um, and like I said, I'll do it for anybody. You know, I've had people randomly call me up and, you know, and

I may not take the phone call right that moment. We may schedule another call for another time or they'll hit me up on LinkedIn and say, Hey, I'd really like to pick your brain about this.

And sometimes I do feel like I'm getting used a little bit. Um. But you know what? You don't really know either. So maybe

that's just, um, me thinking that. Um, but I just try and, and if I have time, I'm gonna give time. If I don't have time, then I'm gonna be honest and say, I, I can't do this. Let's schedule it a week from now, or two weeks.

I promise I'll give you some, uh, time. Um, but time's super valuable, right? So, um. But I try, right? And that's all I can do. I can't please everybody.

Sadaf Beynon: No, I love, I love what

you're saying. Thanks, Mike. [00:45:00] Um, so you've mentioned Covid a couple times. I knew that. it, uh, uh, from what you've said,

it's, it's thrown a, a lot of, um, curve balls at you.

But I'd love to know how did conversations during that time, during the period of covid helped you

adapt, or, Um,

what conversations helped make decisions that made a big

difference?

Mike Schentrup: You know, I. You know, the things that pop to mind as much as anything else was early on. And just the, that there was so much fear. Um, with Covid remember we would have, 'cause you know, cops never stopped working. So it's not like we got to work from home. Um. of us went in, I think there were probably some people at my agency who were administrators or something and worked from home.

But I went into work every day.

Um, but again, I worked mostly from the office, so I didn't have experience as much that in the [00:46:00] field like our patrol officers had to do. Um, and just their fear, like they would go to a call and a guy would cough and then they would say like, Hey. Does he have covid? Oh, we don't know.

Okay. So we don't know if he had covid, but he coughs twice and says he doesn't feel good. Then like six people wanted to be sent home and not work for like 10 days. And I, and you know, this was exasperating to me. I'm like, are you crazy?

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Mike Schentrup: But again, I had to calm myself down and, um, try to look at it through their lens.

The fear that everybody had right early on, um, was very high. And, uh, whether I experienced that same fear as they did, um, that's two different things. You know, I ultimately got exposed. I don't remember how, [00:47:00] um, but you know, again, I told you my parents were living with me. Luckily we have a big enough house to where I was able to isolate myself in my bedroom.

Um, and they basically stayed mostly in their, their area of the house. So, but we had to be careful. So there's always that fear that you would give it to your, your parents as well. Um, and there was just a lot of, you know, somebody wanted to do it this way. So again, when you're in a crisis situation, communication and information is important.

So I made it my goal to send out at least one email to everybody every single day. Updating them and keeping them informed, right? And then I was their conduit. Hey Mike, what about this? So then if they sent me an email back saying, I really think we should do this, or Can we do this or can't, whatever, I would then be the conduit to the command staff and my bosses of how maybe we can improve response.

And [00:48:00] sometimes the recommendations were great, and then sometimes they were like, well, I don't know that we can do that. Um, but I tried to at least communicate with everybody once a day. And there were a lot of people who said, Mike, I, I really appreciate what you did, because, you know, everybody was so scared.

But at least we knew at least once a day somebody was gonna try to provide us information. And then maybe twice a day with an update. In the afternoon. Um,

so, so from that crisis

communication aspect that carried

over when I worked hurricanes at that point too, is that

I would start a

week out sending email updates

and as

it's progressing, getting closer, you know, multiple emails a day, tracking, letting 'em know where it's

gonna

be, what our response is, how we're working on it, and um, getting that

information out to

everybody.

Um, really seemed to make a, a little bit of a difference for a, a lot of people.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. I can imagine. I think you're [00:49:00] totally right. Fear was such a driving force for many people and um, I can see how those, you know, just daily pieces of information would make such a difference. 'cause it manages expectations and it helps people know where they stand or what's going on rather than feeling like they've just, you know, everyone's gone.

Um,

Mike Schentrup: Yeah. And it also at least lets everybody know that the command staff is thinking about these things, right? So they're, at least they're having constant conversations. And, um, so it also tells 'em that, hey, you, they are working on whatever

issue it is.

And

sometimes the email might

say, Hey, we've recognized we have an issue

here. We're working on it. Give us a day or two. And that could be part of it too, right? We're again, we're, we're telling you. We don't know the answer yet. Um, we're trying to figure this out and, and then early on that was a lot of it. There was a lot of questions. So, um, but sometimes it's like, we're working on this issue.[00:50:00]

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, I think that's, that's fantastic leadership. I really do. Mike, as you look ahead, um, what's next for you in Advanced Police concepts? Where are you heading?

Mike Schentrup: Yeah. So I mean, the next uh, big phase for me is where. I've, um, I've started another small company called, uh, Anytime Police Training, which is gonna be a third party, um, website hosting platform, um, where we're gonna host other trainers, um, on their, their online content. We're just gonna be the hosting aspect and we've already moved some of our advanced police concept stuff to that website.

They're gonna be, they're gonna be like sister companies, I guess, brother, sister companies, whatever. Um. So there'll be a lot of collaboration between the two. So now my next project is I have to, I'm hiring somebody to start filming content because I ran into a roadblock. You know, here we go in roadblocks, right?[00:51:00]

I started a company thinking I'm giving people an avenue to give. Put an online class out there that's going to be on demand. Asynchronous. This is like writing a book. You write a book, you, you know, and then you start selling it. It's passive income. You don't have to do anything again. Well, same thing here.

You put an online class together, it's passive income. Everybody's gonna want to do this. Well, nobody's done it

Sadaf Beynon: Hmm.

Mike Schentrup: because the filming, the editing, that's hard, right? So, um, now I have to work on, I'm gonna have to. figure out a little studio area and figure

out some filming and I'm

working on it. And I think that's the next phase, is now bringing these great instructors in, helping them develop their own content and start building out that online platform.

And we have three classes right now. I want to have like [00:52:00] 20, I want to have 10 by the end of the year, so I got my work cut out for me. Um, and, um. We will see how it goes, but that's the next project for sure.

Sadaf Beynon: That's awesome. It sounds incredible. I love the how you're just, um, carrying on

pushing forward to the next

thing and learning as as you go. That's

good,

Mike Schentrup: Lots of mistakes.

Sadaf Beynon: This is, yeah. Well that's how we learn,

right?

Mike, this has been really

great. Thank you so much for sharing your story and, giving us a real inside look at how leadership communication can

drive, can drive our businesses forward.

Thank you

Mike Schentrup: It was a great time and, uh, I appreciate, uh, being invited and I, um. And I hope, you know, moving forward, I love what you're doing here and I hope you keep doing it and having these great conversations with other, uh, industry leaders, I guess, or I'm not sure I'm a leader, but whatever. I am human, [00:53:00] other,

Sadaf Beynon: Yes, you are awesome. Um, Mike, before we wrap up though, where can our listeners connect with you and learn more about advanced police concepts?

Mike Schentrup: Well, everybody can connect with me on LinkedIn. Um, Mike Schentrup you know, I guess you might see it if you're M-I-K-E-S-C-H-E-N-T-R-U-P. Um, I'm the only one there, so you're not, it's not hard to find. Right. I'd love to connect with anybody. On LinkedIn, um, for the company, it's

Advanced Police Concepts, all one word, Advanced Police

Concepts, uh, dot com.

And, and then you can connect to me through the website as well. But, um, two great ways for me to connect. We're on all social medias too. We're on Facebook, Instagram, uh, LinkedIn. So, um, that's, you know, that's another thing, right? Learning all those, how to do that stuff too is just part of the process, right?

The social media aspect.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, for sure. Thank you very much, [00:54:00] Mike, and for those tuning in, thank you for joining us. You'll find all the links and details for Mike

in the description. and if you're someone who's been thinking about growing your business through

conversations on a podcast, but don't have the time to manage all the moving parts, we can help you with that through PodJunction, which is our done for you

podcasting

service.

And if that sounds like something you've been thinking about,

head over to pod junction.com and feel free to book a discovery call with me or reach out to me on LinkedIn. So from Mike and from me, thanks for listening and I'll see you next time.