The Magnetic Effect of Making People Feel Understood | Michael Davis

Michael Davis: [00:00:00] It's nice to be liked, but more important is that people feel that you are like them, in a world where more and more people don't feel understood or listened to, that'll help you stand out so fast.

Because people are drawn to that like a magnet.

Sadaf Beynon: Welcome back to Conversations That Grow the show where we explore how the right conversations can shape our business leadership and even how we see the world. I'm Sadaf Beynon, and today I'm joined by the brilliant Michael Davis. I. As the founder of Speaking CPR Michael helps coaches, speakers, and business leaders communicate with more impact, and one of the biggest lessons he teaches is something most of us think we're good at, but usually aren't.

That's listening. Michael, welcome to the show.

Michael Davis: Thank you. Thank you for those kind words. What could you tell my kids? You think I'm brilliant?

Sadaf Beynon: Sure. Line 'em up

Michael Davis: because they [00:01:00] question me a lot. Thank you for that.

Sadaf Beynon: That's

fantastic. No, you're welcome. Michaels. To kick things off, what's a conversation you had that changed the way you think about leadership or business?

Michael Davis: I, it, it was one of the first conversations I had about the importance of reaching out to your clients and the gentleman said, reach out to your top 20 clients. I was a financial advisor at the time, and he said. Ask them, what's the number one reason you do business with me and why do you continue to do business?

90% of them came back and said, you're a good listener. Stunned me. I had no idea, but I took from that leadership, yes, I was a financial advisor, but I'm in a leadership position leading people about their money, and it changed the way I saw myself. And now [00:02:00] from that point forward, I realized I have to live up to that reputation.

So I worked harder to become an even better listener.

Sadaf Beynon: Hmm.

Michael Davis: So when somebody labels you, they say, you're brilliant. Now I gotta go out and do brilliant things. So it's an example. But as a good listener, I said, I've got to increase my skills. So I, I studied it and, and, and learned it's, it's not just about saying uhhuh a lot and, yeah, that's good.

Now you, you've got to demonstrate by showing people you know, you, you, you heard what they said, or if you not clear, ask questions, look for clarity. That's an important part of listening.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

Michael Davis: And that's all about leadership.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, absolutely It is. Yeah. I totally agree. Um, okay, so love that you asked them the question.

I think that's such a great thing to do because as you say, you, uh, learn so much about yourself. It's that self-awareness, isn't it?

Michael Davis: Mm-hmm. Sure is. [00:03:00]

Sadaf Beynon: And, um, but I'm curious, why did he, why did he ask you to do that?

Michael Davis: To deepen our relationships. Hmm. And to know, part of it was a marketing conversation. He said, you need to know how the market sees you so that you can take that out into the marketplace and it, it impacts how you message yourself.

Sadaf Beynon: Hmm.

Michael Davis: There was a lot of, lot of wisdom from that one exercise.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. And where did you go from there?

Michael Davis: I didn't go out and tell people, Hey, I'm a great listener. What I did, I was learning storytelling at the time also. That's what I do now, is story and speech coaching. I learned how to incorporate that into my storytelling where I didn't tell people, Hey, I'm a good listener.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

Michael Davis: My clients and my client stories. Let's [00:04:00] say one of the reasons we hired you is 'cause you listened to us. Hmm. Several couples back then when I was working primarily with husband and wife, couples told me they hired me. Because I actually listened to the wife.

Sadaf Beynon: Interesting.

Michael Davis: To me, it was just everyday common sense courtesy.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

Michael Davis: And also because I understood the dynamics of financial planning and lifespan, I. I talked to several men back then who weren't good listeners, especially to women, and said, you're stupid because your potential client or your client, 88% of the time, is going to be that woman sitting across from you who's going to outlive her husband.

You better start having a conversation and developing a relationship with a woman.

Sadaf Beynon: That's quite insightful. Michael, what was going through your head when you heard their answers?

Michael Davis: The [00:05:00] first few times I'm like, really? Tell that to my ex-wife. But I, I was surprised, but the more I heard it, I thought, okay, I, I, my reaction wasn't a surprise anymore.

It was okay. Clearly I'm doing something here that I didn't even realize I had to start investigating. What am I doing in these meetings? How am I listening? I. How am I demonstrating that I'm listening and I wanted to make sure I repeat that as a speech coach. Now when I work with people. Whenever I give them feedback, my first goal is to tell them what they did well, because if nobody tells you you're doing something well, you'll stop doing it.

In those conversations, my clients were telling me, you're doing this well, and that was up to me to go figure out, okay, what am I doing exactly? So I started being more aware of how I was listening in future meetings, and that just [00:06:00] helped make me a better listener beyond that point.

Sadaf Beynon: That's fascinating. How did that moment change the way you thought then about your business? And I mean, obviously communication. You've talked ab you've touched on that a little bit.

Michael Davis: Not that I was transactional before, but living in a world, the financial world, which despite what they say, they're very transactional.

I, it, it forced me more. I shouldn't say it forced. It inspired me to go deeper with relationships and realize you have to slow down the process to speed it up, meaning you gotta slow down long enough to listen, ask questions, go deeper. Don't just take the first answer people give you to understand them.

That deepens relationships because people realize, especially in today's year, 2025, everything's so fast paced and [00:07:00] transactional, let's get it done. You go to the doctor, you're in and out in six minutes. When you slow that down, you're showing people. You're important. This relationship, this conversation is important to me.

But you don't say that because everybody says you demonstrated by taking the time not to have to, uh, you waiting for the person to stop talking so you can say something important. It's. Gaining clarity and understanding.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. You, you mentioned before about, um, listening. Well, what were you, what would you say are some of the ways that you can listen?

Well, that someone can listen, well

Michael Davis: go into a conversation without an agenda. I. First order of business. Don't go in with a memorized script. If you're a salesperson or a leader, don't go in memorized. Go [00:08:00] in open and be ready to, now I'm gonna contradict myself. You have to go in, if you're a presenter or a speaker leader into a meeting, you gotta have an organized idea and outline of what you're going to say.

When I say script I, I mean, don't go over the memorized verbatim. I'm gonna say this, this, and this, because that's so inauthentic. But also be ready to throw out the script. Throw out your prepared remarks. If you're listening to people in the room, and it sounds like this is not what I anticipated, they need something completely different from me.

You have to have the courage and the confidence to say, all right, we're not gonna talk about my prepared agenda. We need to talk about what's important to you. Mm-hmm.

Sadaf Beynon: And, um, how do you demonstrate your, that your listening? That's something else you mentioned.

Michael Davis: How do I demonstrate it? I often will take something that people tell me, and [00:09:00] this goes back to your previous question. How do you prepare? Be aware of the filter. You and I and everyone else has, I hear a term and I immediately run it through my filter and start making assumptions.

This happens at a microsecond level, right? You say to me, I want to be better when I speak in front of a Crowd. Well, I hear the word Crowd as a speech coach and a professional speaker. I might think, oh, she's talking about 500, a thousand, 2000 people, and I start giving you advice. Find out at the end of the conversation to you, a Crowd was five people.

All right. My advice may not be proper for what you need. So my first. Step is to say, when you say Crowd Sadaf, what does that mean to you? Always gain, uh, aim for clarity. Don't assume the terms we hear in our [00:10:00] everyday conversations are what people mean. This is especially true on interpersonal communications in our homes, we get so used to one another.

We're trying to shortcut the conversation process. Yeah, we, we know what our partners add. We know what they meant.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

Michael Davis: No, we need, that's the most important conversations where we have to slow it down and get clarity. What exactly do you mean by, you know, fill in the blank, whatever term or phrase they used.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, as you were talking, I was thinking that, um. We often go into that mode of trying to seek clarity when we are trying to solve a problem.

Michael Davis: Mm-hmm.

Sadaf Beynon: So if someone's telling us about an issue they've got or they're struggling with something, so you listen with the intent to help them through what they're going through, how do you listen well, when it's not, um, a problem solving kind of a situation.

Michael Davis: Well, a good habit to get into, and I'm still working on [00:11:00] this after 62 years, is think about in, in our home lives when a partner or a child family member comes to us, or a friend, a good question, we could be a, we should be asking them is, do you want me to help you solve this problem? Or do you just need someone to listen?

As business leaders, we may have that. Sometimes people just need to get something off their chest. Well, let's get that clarity up front, because if somebody comes into your office for example, and they just need to vent for two minutes, five minutes, but you're hearing it as an opportunity to solve a problem, they're going to walk out unfulfilled.

And so are you as a leader, you're gonna think, well, they didn't respond. I gave them advice. Well, that's not what they wanted. So get clarity right up front. What is the purpose of this conversation?

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, I like that. I think, um, what I, what I'm gathering [00:12:00] from what you're saying, and I, I appreciate is that.

Um, when we're speaking with someone and communicating with them, it's really becoming a student of them to really understand what it is they're, they're trying to say. 'cause sometimes it's hard to get everything out, isn't it? And it's also picking up the nonverbals and reading between the lines. And there's an element of, um, well, when you talk about getting clarity, it's that element of asking the right questions to draw that out.

Michael Davis: Absolutely. And what you just said, Sadaf is so important. I can't pay attention to your nonverbals, your tone of voice. If I'm thinking, okay, I gotta say this next. When is she gonna stop talking? I have something important to say and we all fall into the trap if we're not careful. But just take a breath.

You're by. Just as an aside, you're a very good interviewer. I've been on. Almost a hundred podcasts [00:13:00] and you're thoughtful and you, I can tell you're listening to things I'm saying, you're asking questions and you do a follow up. You're demonstrating what most of us should be doing in our conversations.

Sadaf Beynon: Thank you, Michael. That's very kind.

Michael Davis: You're welcome. Again, you're doing something well, I pointed out to me, but no, you really do demonstrate what we're talking about here. You're not rushing the process. You don't have this checklist of questions. You're just, you're in the moment. That's ideal conversation.

Sadaf Beynon: Thank you. Um, I wanted to go back to what you were saying about, um, your, you know, asking, asking your, your clients the questions, and then they responded with saying that, you know, you are very good at listening, and you talked about, you kind of went back in your mind, well, what do I do that makes it so good?

And, um, so my question is like, after realizing how important listening was

Michael Davis: mm-hmm.

Sadaf Beynon: How did you start intentional, intentionally then [00:14:00] developing that skill?

Michael Davis: I would walk into meetings and it's carried over to this day, 25 years later, where I say, I don't have an agenda. Don't go in with a list of questions, just go in and.

What does that mean? This is a question I'm constantly in, in the back of my mind, always asking, and sometimes I'll verbally ask the other person, and I'll say it different ways, but whatever answer I get, if I'm not clear, what does that mean?

Sadaf Beynon: Hmm.

Michael Davis: And it's the habit I've built up over the years. And if you're watching this interview, if you take nothing else from this conversation, aside from Sadaf, wonderful interview style.

Ask, create the habit of asking yourself that question. What does that mean? And if you are not clear, then it's on you to ask the other person. What specifically do you mean by that?

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, I think open, honest, clear communication is just so [00:15:00] important. Or every, every area, whether it's your business, whether it's your home.

Oh,

Michael Davis: absolutely.

Sadaf Beynon: You know, all the time.

Michael Davis: Yeah. Every, look, I know I'm jaded when I say this, but I believe every business problem, every personal problem, it all comes back to some type of miscommunication.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm.

Michael Davis: Expectations. I work with groups of, of, you know, I do group training mostly now with companies and one of the first things we do is.

Here are the expectations. What are your expectations of me? And I always ask them, first, here are my expectations of you. And usually I will bring them additional expectations they should have of me. But let's just right up front.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

Michael Davis: Let's be clear. And that way if there's any miscommunication we can take it back to Alright.

Somehow the, the, the expectation was violated.

Sadaf Beynon: Hmm.

Michael, when we were having our pre-call a few weeks ago, you mentioned, um, [00:16:00] the mental movie maker. I'd love for you to tell us a bit more about that.

Michael Davis: Sure. This gets into storytelling. Uh, one of the big challenges I see in speaking and communicating, selling. Is that a lot of speakers are still giving facts, figures, and information.

Look, I'm not the first person to point this out, but we don't need you for facts, figures, and information because this little device right here can give it to me faster than ever, especially now with ai.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

Michael Davis: What we need from you is an experience when we present. So the mental movie maker is activating that part of our brain that starts to see a movie in our mind's eye.

If I'm telling a story, I want to create the emotion I. Which means I'm going to activate what I call the storytelling codes. That's [00:17:00] where we're activating cortisol, oxytocin, dopamine, endor, endorphins, and uh, serotonin. We also activate, what one of my coaches taught me is a term we call vaccinate your speech or vaccinate your story involve the visual, the auditory, the kinesthetic, the smell, and the taste.

Sadaf Beynon: Hmm.

Michael Davis: Use dialogue. When you use all these elements in storytelling, people can't it, it's humanly impossible to not have that activated, because what's happening is you're tapping into their experiences.

So one of my signature stories involves me being a 6-year-old boy, little boy being punished in first grade. I.

Sadaf Beynon: Hmm,

Michael Davis: and it is a rainy November afternoon and you can hear the rain pelting. The steel roof and the lights are [00:18:00] turned off in my first grade class, and all the kids are resting their heads on their desks.

All but one that's me standing on top of my desk. Because as my teacher, Mrs. Grim said earlier that day, since you love being so disruptive in my class, I'm gonna let you hit stand up in front of everyone today on top of your desk.

Sadaf Beynon: Hmm.

Michael Davis: Now, did you start to create an image in your mind?

Sadaf Beynon: Absolutely. Yeah.

Was your

Michael Davis: mental movie maker activated?

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

Michael Davis: Now I didn't over detail it. So I'm not sure. What did you see in your mind as I was telling that?

Sadaf Beynon: So in my mind I saw a classroom and desks that looked very much like similar to mine when we were little and in school.

Michael Davis: Mm-hmm.

Sadaf Beynon: So it was very similar to that picture.

And, um, all everyone's heads were down with, you know, in their [00:19:00] arms. Um, on their desks while you were standing at, um, on, on your, on your desk, but probably not that. Um, proud and happy with yourself. It was more of a, you know, it was more of a situation where you were being told off and, uh, put down,

Michael Davis: I wanted the earth to swallow me up and take me away forever.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

Michael Davis: How many kids were in the room that you saw?

Sadaf Beynon: About 15.

Michael Davis: 15, okay.

Sadaf Beynon: We had a small school.

Michael Davis: Well, here's the thing. The reality is there were probably 30 kids in the room, but that doesn't matter.

Sadaf Beynon: No,

Michael Davis: because if I had said there were 30 kids in the room, I shut down your ability to see the image because your experience was 15

Sadaf Beynon: mm.

Michael Davis: And a number of the kids in the room didn't matter. What one of my mentors, Mark Brown says, my story is about me, but it's for you. [00:20:00] The goal of the story isn't really my experience, it's tapping into yours.

The external was, you see the kids, it's dark, there's 15 desks in the room, et cetera. But it also started to tap into your emotions. Oh, that poor kid, either that happened to you, something that embarrassed you, or empathy for me. Either way, we're making an emotional connection and it all comes from activating that mental movie maker.

Not still images, but the movies themselves. And we all do it when we tell stories. Some people are just better at it than others.

Sadaf Beynon: That's incredible. Um, would you say then that it's about. The story resonating with the listener.

Michael Davis: Absolutely. A story is, should never be a series of facts.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

Michael Davis: Like if you're just gonna give facts and information, that's not a story, just put it on a [00:21:00] PDF and send it to people.

They can read it faster than you can tell it.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm.

Michael Davis: It's taking them into those moments where people can feel it with you, and if the story is properly structured and taps into. The correct emotions for that audience. They're going to go on this journey with you and you're going to inspire in them two things.

Number one, hope that the problem that they're facing, they can overcome. Um, I say two things. It's really just one, it's that it, it's hope. But there are a lot of elements that go into that. You've gotta know your audience, which goes back to listening. You have to do your research. What are their concerns?

Maybe call some of them before. If you can get ahold of people who will be in your audience. If you're a speaker, as a leader, know the people in your room. What are the challenges they're facing? Because once you know that, you can structure your stories to match where they are. [00:22:00]

Sadaf Beynon: Hmm. Do you have to be a great storyteller to get a similar response from your audience?

Michael Davis: We define great storyteller.

Sadaf Beynon: I mean, what you just did there, that was great. You know, like as you were saying, you, you didn't, you didn't say 30 'cause you didn't want to put something in my head that wasn't naturally, that, where I wasn't naturally going. Mm-hmm. But you wanted me to feel it. You wanted me to have all my senses involved in it so that I could, you know, really be a part of that journey that you were, you were drawing out, and to be able to take lessons and some gold nuggets, whatever it is, from away from that.

Is there, I, I guess like if someone's not a natural storyteller, can they still be good at communicating and. Listening and being a good leader.

Michael Davis: [00:23:00] Yes. Now I understand, uh, first of all, there's a myth that great storytellers are born. They're not. I was not a great storyteller. In fact, the reason I got into speech coaching is because when I was 31 years old, I was a financial advisor.

My boss sat me down and said, Hey, uh, hey, I'm sorry to tell you this. You're a lousy speaker. I was out doing workshops and seminars and he said, fix this or else.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

Michael Davis: Very supportive, loving guy. So outta desperation, I went and joined this group called Toastmasters.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

Michael Davis: Right. And I, if you're watching this, you don't know what Toastmasters is.

It's a grip that helps people become more confident speakers. Well, that was my first step on this journey that started 31 years ago to becoming the kind of speaker who's confident and who can tell stories. I had no idea how to do that. There are processes, there's there's neuroscience [00:24:00] behind. How do you effectively structure stories and speeches so that people lean in.

Sadaf Beynon: Hmm.

Michael Davis: And they're, they're taken into your journey with you and they want to go from start to finish, but most people don't know those. They think that speaking is just getting up and talking.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Michael Davis: I think that storytelling is just giving a bunch of facts,

Sadaf Beynon: Hmm,

Michael Davis: this happened and this happened and this. Now that's not effective storytelling.

We can all do that. If you're watching this from this day forward, every time you listen to a speaker who captivates you ask yourself that question. What? What was so captivating about that? Why was I drawn in? You're gonna find that there was an emotional response because they created just enough detail in the scene to make you feel like you were in it with them.

Got that emotional response and went on the journey with them, and hopefully there was an effective, important message at the end that you could take with you.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

Michael Davis: It is a learnable [00:25:00] skill.

Sadaf Beynon: That's good to know.

Michael Davis: Yes.

Sadaf Beynon: Hmm.

What does this look like in, in a business setting? So if you're a leader in your business, this and.

You are finding maybe your style of communicating is getting in the way of real listening and, um, you know, understanding between your, um, between your team.

Michael Davis: Mm-hmm.

Sadaf Beynon: How can you start on this journey of becoming a better communicator, better storyteller, better listener?

Michael Davis: That's an excellent question, and it starts with understanding the questions that are in people's minds when you talk to them.

Whether you're talking to a room of five, fifteen, a hundred five doesn't matter.

Sadaf Beynon: Hmm.

Michael Davis: These are some of the questions that people have that they typically will never ask. Number one is, is it safe?

Sadaf Beynon: Hmm.

Michael Davis: I don't mean physical safety, but psychological safety. Is this person going to threaten [00:26:00] how I see myself that leads to, is this somebody I can trust?

Do you understand me? Do you understand my problems, my situation? And if you understand me, do you have a solution to my problems? Do you have a specific solution? So knowing that what, what's going on in their heads? I, I'm constantly coaching my clients. Think like your audience, Sadaf, you and I and you watching this, you, we all have the similar problem.

It's called the curse of knowledge. We know our topics and our stories so well. We don't know what it's like not to know them anymore. Our audience is hearing this for the first time. Many times. Again, audience could be a one-to-one sales situation. So if I say audience, it could be all these different situations.

We've gotta think like our audience. Am I using terms, phrases? Am I saying things in my [00:27:00] stories that they're not gonna get the reference? Yeah. You know, this happens. Interpersonal communication, my partner and I, sometimes she will say to me. I'm telling her a story and she's like, well, you left out those five parts.

I said, but honey, remember I'm a communications expert supposedly, but we, our interpersonal relationships is the best place to test these ideas.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, that's, that's such a good point.

Michael Davis: But it. Shut that knowledge off and say, what do they think? How could they be seeing this? And it's very hard to do ourselves.

That's why we need other people to look at our presentations and stories. For us to say, that doesn't make sense. That doesn't, I don't understand this. This is the biggest challenge I have. I'm going through these speeches and stories and I'm telling people I don't know what this means.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, I agree. I mean, yeah, I know your boss said that to you about you, you know, being a terrible speaker.

Um. And it's [00:28:00] not nice to hear, but it's actually, it's actually quite a gift when someone is so honest with you to help you out there.

Michael Davis: He did me a huge favor. Yeah. I wouldn't be doing what I do today if not for his very, between the eyes commented. Yeah, he said it much more harshly, by the way. Yeah. I made you G-rated for this conversation.

Sadaf Beynon: Oh dear. Michael, I am. I know you work with a lot of, a lot of leaders. So in your experience, why do you think so many leaders think they're good listeners but still miss the mark?

Michael Davis: I think a lot of times they get just good enough results.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

Michael Davis: And it boils down to that where in such a numbers business is numbers driven. Did you hit your numbers? And they go to the old school way of management leadership, so they get the numbers. But unfortunately they don't know what numbers they're missing because they're not as [00:29:00] effective as they could be.

Sadaf Beynon: Hmm.

Michael Davis: I love the stories about companies who sit down and have conversations, who have leaders who don't even worry about a title, maybe don't even have an office separate from everyone else. They're, they're in there working in the trenches with their, their teams, and you just see massive growth. Yeah.

Because everybody's on the same page, but it's. I think mediocrity.

Sadaf Beynon: Hmm.

Michael Davis: If it's just good enough, we're happy. We've, we've pleased the shareholders. Let's just move on and do it the way we've always done it, and that's not effective.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's interesting. Is, uh, is what you're saying, that it's more of like, give me the facts and the figures that I need to do the next step or to take the next step or move from here to there.

Is that What? Is that what you mean by that? Yeah.

Michael Davis: A lot of times that's what it is. And people, I hear this a lot. Well, storytelling has no place in business.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

Michael Davis: Well, that's ridiculous. And I'll tell you why. Because human beings in business or outside of [00:30:00] business, we are emotional creatures.

Sadaf Beynon: Absolutely.

Michael Davis: This is proven by science. Two thirds of our communication is storytelling in some fact and format throughout every day. Business personal, doesn't matter. Doesn't it make sense if that's two thirds of our communication, that we learn to do it in a way that appeals to the human brain?

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

Michael Davis: I mean, there are eight factors that go into an effectively structured story that if you do it in these, these eight in order.

The listener can't help but be involved. Their mental movie maker cannot be turned off.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Michael Davis: It's a human reaction. So why aren't we doing this? Well, because we think it's about numbers and get to the bottom line when the truth is the story, slowing down just enough to tell a story so that the numbers make sense, will speed up the process, gain us more clients, gain us more followers.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. You said about, um, storytelling appealing to the human brain. [00:31:00] That makes so much sense because if you can appeal to your, your team mm-hmm. You are, you're gonna get the trust and the loyalty out of them that's gonna go much farther than the project you're working on at that time.

Michael Davis: Yeah. It's, it's the leader who's willing to show that.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

Michael Davis: Or being real, you know? Yeah. The, the authenticity to say, look, I may be in this position, but I understand yours because of this, this, and, and they tell the story of when they were in that same position or a lesson they learned from a grandparent or a parent, which is applicable here.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

Michael Davis: When

you show people, you're like them.

They're much more drawn to you.

Sadaf Beynon: Yes.

Michael Davis: There's that old saying in sales, people do business with who they know, like, and trust.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

Michael Davis: Okay. It's nice to be liked, but more important is that people feel that you are like them, which means, oh, you understand me? Yeah. And in a world where more and more people don't feel understood or listened to, [00:32:00] that'll help you stand out so fast.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

Michael Davis: Because people are drawn to that like a magnet.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. Yeah. That relatability is so strong.

Michael Davis: That's it.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

Michael Davis: Yeah.

Sadaf Beynon: I, I don't, I guess I'm trying to figure out why more leaders don't, you know, um, take that time to, to connect and to relate and to invest in that, in, in that kind of way with their teams.

And do you think it's got to do with. Time pressures so they feel just so driven that there's like deadlines. There's so much to accomplish in such a short amount of time. I don't have time to sit and have coffee with you and go deeper.

Michael Davis: You hit it right there. Is that right? We are so, I mean, I held this little device up before.

This has changed the game. All this technology, we feel rushed, pulled, drawn in all these different directions. We're getting binged and peeped and all this.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Michael Davis: I hear [00:33:00] this a lot from people. I don't have the time to learn the skill.

Sadaf Beynon: Hmm.

Michael Davis: And my counter to that is you ha you don't have the time not to.

Sadaf Beynon: Hmm. Yeah.

Michael Davis: Because if you keep on this treadmill, then you're never going to improve your communication skills and you're, you're never gonna get off of it. Whereas if you would learn how to do it effectively

Sadaf Beynon: mm-hmm.

Michael Davis: Listening, as you know, takes work and we get away from speaking and everything for a moment.

Just listening. It is hard work. It's exhausting my, the days of the week when I'm exhausted, come after I've done three or four, maybe five coaching calls.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

Michael Davis: I'm done. 'cause it's exhausting. It's rewarding, but it's like. You gotta be willing to, to learn the skill.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm. And I

Michael Davis: think it all comes back to a lot of people, Sadaf, just think it's good enough.

Yeah.[00:34:00]

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. Unfortunate. But love that you're working with people to help them become better at this. Absolutely. With the, with the people that you have been working with, what's one simple shift that you help them make to make them better Listeners?

Michael Davis: Mastering the Art of silence. This is a contradiction, or it sounds like a contradiction, but the most important part of a speech presentation or any thing you're doing is silence because it's in the silence that people start to experience the implication of what you say. It gives them time to answer the questions you ask.

Also, it gives 'em time to laugh if you say something funny, but part of the listening is and, and be. Again, the devices have made it to where most people, and I see [00:35:00] this with younger generations, they struggle with silence. Watch this in the next meeting you're in. If somebody asks a question and the, and the presenter is skilled enough to stop talking for several seconds, somebody will break the silence.

They can't take it. It's gotten worse as time has gone on because we're just surrounded by noise. Noise.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Michael Davis: The speaker who has the confidence to slow it down

Sadaf Beynon: mm-hmm.

Michael Davis: And listen to what's going on in the room. The communicator, the leader who's who can get comfortable. And the only way you do that is you gotta practice silence.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. And

Michael Davis: I tell people all the time in their presentations, I want you to stretch it out to where you feel like you're gonna have a nervous breakdown. You, you gotta get comfortable with.

That right there.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

Michael Davis: And the person who can do that will become the better listener, leader and presenter.

Sadaf Beynon: That's gold. [00:36:00] I love it. And you know, to add to what you were saying, I think even the person who is doing the speaking, when you, when you are silent, it lets them hear back in their head what they've just communicated and allows them to process that.

Michael Davis: Mm-hmm.

Sadaf Beynon: And I think that makes so much, um, that's, that helps make such a better, more constructive conversation. Oh, absolutely. You both are hearing well.

Michael Davis: Yeah. And it activates the mental movie maker.

Sadaf Beynon: Yes.

Michael Davis: If I make a point that, you know, imagine you're standing on stage

Sadaf Beynon: Mm.

Michael Davis: In front of 500 people, you're confident.

Are you starting to picture it?

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

Michael Davis: The way most people do that. Imagine you're standing on stage, you're in front of 500 people and they're clapping and they're responding to you. And, and I'm not giving you time because I didn't stop long enough for you to picture it.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm.[00:37:00]

Michael, this has been such a great conversation. Um, unfortunately, we're running out of time. Uh, but thank you so much for sharing your story, the lessons that you've been learning and have learned, and reminding us that growth really does start when we listen well.

Michael Davis: Absolutely. Thank you for demonstrating that throughout.

Sadaf Beynon: No, you're very welcome. Michael. Before we wrap up, if our listeners want to connect with you and learn more about speaking CPR, where can they go to do that?

Michael Davis: You can go to speaking cpr.com. I also have a complimentary resource called 52 Storytelling Insights. That's five two.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

Michael Davis: Storytelling Insights.

It'll give you more wisdom about storytelling, but also part of that is. Just being a better communicator, listener, et cetera.

Sadaf Beynon: Fantastic. Thanks again for your time and being so generous.

Michael Davis: Thank you.

Sadaf Beynon: And to those of you tuning in, thank you for joining us. You'll find all the links and details for Michael in the description.

And if you're someone who's been [00:38:00] thinking about using conversations to grow your own business, maybe even through a podcast, but don't have time to handle all the the moving parts, that's exactly what we help [email protected]. You can find out more at our website, pod junction.com, or just read out, reach out to me directly on LinkedIn.

So from Michael and from me. That's all for today. Bye from us, and I will see you next time.