How to Beat the Hidden Struggle 78% of Leaders Face | Therese Gopaul-Robinson

Sadaf Beynon: [00:00:00] Hey there and welcome back to Push to Be More. I'm Sadaf Beynon, one of your hosts for this podcast. And today we've got another great conversation about what it takes to make life work. Joining me today is our special guest, Therese Gopaul-Robinson. And I'm really excited to hear about her unique life experiences, the hurdles she's had to push through, the ways she recharges her spirit and the steps she's taking to be more.

In other words, it's all about push to be more. This episode is brought to you by Podjunction, a podcast production service that helps businesses launch and grow podcasts without the stress. Now, I know a lot of you listening are leaders and entrepreneurs. And if you're curious about what podcasting can do for your business, or if you're wondering where to even start.

Head over to podjunction.com. We would [00:01:00] absolutely love to help make the process clear and approachable for you. Podcasting offers a unique way to expand your reach and connect with your audience in ways you may not have considered. And honestly, it's way easier than you might think. So check out podjunction.

com. See what podcasting can do for you. And now let's meet Therese. Therese Gopaul-Robinson is a leadership strategist who helps executives overcome self doubt and lead with confidence. With 20 plus years in healthcare, she saw firsthand how a lack of confidence stifles decision making and hinders business growth.

And now she's equipping leaders with the tools to make bold decisions, inspire their teams and drive real impact. Therese, welcome to the show. How are you today?

Therese Gopaul-Robinson: I am fantastic. I'm, you know, you and I were chatting right before and I was saying it has been a day and it has been a day, but it's been a good day.

It's just, you know, it's one of those days where you just got to just kind of keep pushing forward. So no, I'm doing really great. [00:02:00] Doing really great.

Sadaf Beynon: You're welcome. So Therese, you know that I am part of Podjunction. And so the first question I like to ask is if you had your own podcast. And by anyone to be on your show, who would you invite and why

Therese Gopaul-Robinson: I would invite Snoop Dogg.

Okay. Yes, I know. That's a different one. Why would I invite him? You know, if you think about somebody who has the test of time and evolved as they grew in their business. It's Snoop Dogg. And when you look at just kind of how he began versus where he is right now, it's an incredible journey. And there's, you know, we see a lot in terms of what he's doing right now.

You know, I think he purchased a hockey team and he invested in all these different things, but I am very curious about. The behind the scenes, how did he make those transitions? What were [00:03:00] those conversations like? What was the work that he had to do to go from, you know, well known rapper to this business?

You know, Mogu, I mean, like, how, what, what, what did that look like behind the scenes? I think, I think he's a brilliant human being and I would love a few minutes to just tap into his brain to just really understand what that journey looked like. So that would be hands down who I'd want to talk to.

Sadaf Beynon: That's cool.

So why, why is it? That you are so curious about him and those particular set of questions that you've just outlined there.

Therese Gopaul-Robinson: Because

he has figured out how to continue to be relevant. That's the bottom line. He has figured out the secret to being relevant, regardless of the climate, regardless of what's happening in the environment, regardless of just anything, he has figured out that formula.

And I think if [00:04:00] But the rest of us could figure out that formula, how incredible would that be? So that truly is what it is. This, this is a brilliant human being. And I think it's, you know, I almost feel like I want him to teach a business class or a course or something somewhere, because I do think it's not something that just happened accidentally.

It's not something that he just, you know, said, Hey, I'm Snoop Dogg. You know, let me just continue to be relevant. It was something that was intentional. Um, it was something that he worked really hard about, hard for. And he also, there was strategy behind it. And to me, I think that is just so intriguing. And so, again, I would love to be able to just tap into that brain just to, to hear from him.

You know, what did that look like? Was he always confident? Did he know back in the 90s that this is where he wanted to be? Was this a transition that happened in response to something else? Did he have any doubts and [00:05:00] fears? How many times was he told no? How many times did he walk into a boardroom and people have this assumption?

Of him and who he was based on what was out there publicly. So these are all things I think would be just a wealth of knowledge and just something great, just really great information to have. And I really think that if we had access to that information, that, that to me is gold.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, yeah, it's fascinating, isn't it?

And I think a lot. I mean, I'm sure he's, he's faced all kinds of struggles and has had to hear as a lot of people do. And I think it's interesting when you listen to people's stories that it's often the hardships and the challenges and the struggle that helps them reach those new heights that they hadn't before.

Yeah. Thought of before possibly, right? Yeah.

Therese Gopaul-Robinson: Yeah. And a lot of us, you know, we see the end result, right? You know, we see him as the end result and we think, Oh, okay. Well, you know, he, he, obviously he has it easy or just [00:06:00] anyone else who, you know, is in the spotlight, Tony Robbins, Oprah, all these people, you look at them and go.

Man, it must be great to be you and you just get everything handed to you. And that's not the case. There's a journey that happens. There's a, there's a lot that, you know, a lot of failure that happens along the way and a lot of resilience that happens along the way. And I think a lot of these folks who.

We look up to, or we even take for granted, they have a story to tell and they have something that they could teach all of us. And, and again, I, I really single him out specifically because I look at him as somebody who has not only made this incredible transition, figured out how to be relevant, but he's also probably had to face a lot of assumptions.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Therese Gopaul-Robinson: About who he is as a human or as a businessman, and you probably had to overcome a lot of those obstacles based on that. And I, to me, I, I just, I, I just admire him a lot.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, no, that's very [00:07:00] cool. Thank you for sharing that. You're welcome. Yeah, and actually, you know what, I want to extend that to you.

So tell us about what challenges have you faced and how have you overcome them? Because I feel like it just kind of leads nicely into my next question.

Therese Gopaul-Robinson: Yeah. So like all of us, right? I've faced several challenges. Um, but the biggest challenge I faced really is my internal, um, negativity, I guess, is the best, the negative self talk, I guess, is the best way to say it throughout my career, regardless of all the promotions, I hate.

You know, I received, regardless of all of the accolades, all of those things, I never quite believed that I deserved it. Never fully bought into that fact or that thought that I belonged where I was. And I really struggled in my leadership roles. I really struggled, [00:08:00] really, in every position that I was in because I I just felt like I was pretending, if that makes sense.

I just felt like I was putting on an act because I really didn't belong here. I really wasn't smart enough and I really shouldn't be in this boardroom with all of these really incredible, uh, human beings. And so that was something that I really struggled with for quite honestly, 20 plus years. Um, I did a really good job of pretending.

Um, but. To be very honest, you know, and I talk about this sometimes when I'm on stage where, you know, the routine for me was I would get up, I would cry all the way to work, I would park in the parking lot, I would sit there for a minute to try to gather myself, I would go to work, I would get back in my car and I'd cry all the way home because every day I just felt like I couldn't.

meet expectations. And I just was not. Um, I just didn't belong in those positions, and I put a lot of pressure on myself. So fast forward in time, how have [00:09:00] I overcome that? Well, It took a lot of, it took a lot of self reflection and quite honestly, and I think it's something that we probably need to talk about more openly, you know, I did actually seek help.

I started therapy and I started to get to the root of some of the feelings that I was having. Um, and, and there were things that we tapped into. That I didn't even realize contributed to some of those thoughts I had on a daily basis about myself and about myself as a leader. So that was the first thing, was just recognizing that I couldn't figure this out on my own.

And then the second thing was trying to figure out the easiest way, and I, and I really mean that, the easiest, you know, least complicated way to start building confidence. And for me, it started off with Being more intentional about some of the things that I wanted to do in my life and in my career. And the second thing I did [00:10:00] was I started to look for evidence around me that I had done it before.

Because I think oftentimes when we set goals, we think, Oh my gosh, these are big goals. There's no way I can do this. I'm not capable. I don't have the, this, that, the other, whatever. But in fact, There's evidence all around us showing us that we can do hard things. So the second thing I did was started to kind of look for, you know, examples in my life where I was able to achieve certain things like getting my master's degree, like buying my first house, all things that felt so out there for me at, you know, at that time.

And then the last thing I did was I just started doing stuff. I just acted. I started doing little things at a time. Um, I didn't look too too far ahead. And I just kind of rinse and repeated that I was intentional. I looked around myself for evidence and and then I just started doing things. And so for [00:11:00] me, that transition has been there.

I would be lying to you, Sadaf, if I said that I was a thousand percent confident in any situation that I was in. Because it is a process and it is something that I continuously work at. I do believe that confidence is a skill. It is not something that we're born with. And it is also something that we have to continuously work on, just like any other muscle, right?

We, we can't just work out, get the big biceps and then like be done. We have to keep, we have to maintain that. And so there's certain things we have to continuously do to maintain that confidence muscle. And so for me, it's just continuously trying to remember that I've accomplished things, remember that I can do hard things, and just get up every single day and try.

That's really it, at the end of the day, trying.

Sadaf Beynon: Wow, thanks for sharing that.

Therese Gopaul-Robinson: Yeah.

Sadaf Beynon: Um, you said you, you sought help. You, you, you [00:12:00] were self, you reflected on it. And you realized you needed help. Yes. What was that process like? Because I think sometimes it's a bit, it's hard for people to come to that point of actually I need help with this.

Um, I can't do this. It's bigger than me.

Therese Gopaul-Robinson: Yeah. I, I realized that when my younger daughter, Zara made a comment to me in passing, it was very innocent too. She was probably maybe like five years old at the time, a little one at the time. so much. And. Yeah, and she just said, you know, mommy, I just, I just, are you happy?

Like, I just want you to be okay. And we were just doing something and she made that comment. Like, I just want you to be happy. I just want you to smile. I want you to be okay. And I realized that, although I thought I was doing a really good job of, you know, hiding all of the negative things I was feeling and my deep sadness.[00:13:00]

In fact, I really wasn't and I was kind of going through the motions, but my kids I just saw and knew that something was wrong and the most important thing to me on this planet is to be a good mom and to really set a good table for my, for my daughters. And it made me so sad to think that this little five year old kid was worried about me being happy and that really, that hurt me so much.

And that was when I realized that it's not fair to her. I, I said that I want to give my kids more and, and, and be better for my kids, I wasn't doing it. Hmm. And so that was really the first time that I said, okay, this is not working. This is not working. You know, getting up and being mom and making the lunches and dropping them off and helping them with homework and [00:14:00] smiling and laughing and then going in the bathroom and crying.

It's not working. And so that was really the first step for me and I went and I did not want to go it was, I mean, going to therapy the very first time it's like the most uncomfortable experience, at least for me, anyhow, and also because on some level I was just like, well, do I even really need it? Like, am I overreacting?

Maybe I can't, you know, I was trying to justify it in my head. And the very first session I had, I joke about it now, but I, you know, I say to myself, that was the easiest. money that woman ever earned in her life because I sat in her office and she said, so Therese, what brings you? And I just cried for about 30 minutes and she did nothing and said nothing.

And, um, but that, but clearly that meant that there were things happening that I needed to resolve. And so that was, that was really how I got started. So, I mean, I'd love to tell you that I just woke up one day and said, I'm going to take control of [00:15:00] my life, but that's not what what happened. What happened is my five year old was worried about my level of joy.

She was worried about me being happy. That gets a little emotional talking about that. But yeah, that was really the first step for me. Because the bottom line is everything you do, people are watching, whether it's your co workers, your friends, your children, everything you do, people are paying attention.

And you may think, you may think that you're doing well and you're, you've got the persona down of, I've got it together. But the reality is. That people are paying attention and these little ones are looking to you for guidance. And so what I was teaching my kids was that it was not, you know, it was okay to be unhappy.

It was okay to, you know, not figure out how to be a stronger human. And it was okay to kind of just have these negative thoughts about yourself, [00:16:00] yourself. And that's certainly not something I wanted for them.

Sadaf Beynon: Well, thanks for sharing. I mean, it's just, it makes me think out of, out of the mouths of babes.

Right. So to push you to make, um, such bold. Decisions and choices to help you out of that, that mess you are in. Um, and also you, what you're saying is that, you know, how they're watching all the time. There's always someone watching. And what's interesting is that each person is interpreting what you're, what they're seeing in a different way.

So what your daughters would have been seeing was that, yeah, it's okay to be like this. It's okay to, you know, it's okay to, to be struggling and feeling burdened. Someone else might be watching and thinking, Oh, wow, she's got it all together because you could curate the perfect picture. Right. Like, um, but inside you're really struggling.

Therese Gopaul-Robinson: And the thing is to set off is more, more of us go through those private struggles than we realize. [00:17:00] And, and that's why I think it's really important to talk about these things in any setting, whether it's, we're talking about our careers, we're talking about, you know, pushing to be more, it's important that we, we normalize types of conversations because we all have our own personal, you know, uh, struggles and challenges and obstacles or whatever word you want to, you want to call it.

And it's, so it's important that we talk about that stuff as well as we try to grow, as we try to start our businesses or become dynamic leaders or be better spouses or whatever, whatever your thing is, whatever it is that you're trying to, you know, to do more, uh, or be better at, it's important that we acknowledge that, that, you know, we all have real things going on and it's okay to talk about those real things in a, in a very constructive way that, that can really help others and help ourselves at the same time.

Yeah.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, no, I totally agree. And I think, [00:18:00] you know, life is messy, isn't it? It's, it's just not perfect for anybody. And, um, yeah, as you say, like talking about it and processing things out loud and getting people's input, trusted people, um, is really important.

Therese Gopaul-Robinson: For sure.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. Is this part of what you do for your role as well?

Cause, um, in the bio that we had is that you equip leaders with the tools to make bold decisions, inspire their teams and drive real impact. Is this around a similar kind of strength?

Therese Gopaul-Robinson: Absolutely. Yes. A thousand percent. And so Oh my gosh. You know, I, I love working with leaders who, um, they have good intentions and they want to do well.

And this is exactly what I do with the people that I work with at the organizations that I work with, because the reality is this, and this is, this is not a Therese. I'm not just like [00:19:00] kind of throwing numbers out and making things up. There's a lot of research being done. On confidence and leadership and statistically speaking, 78 percent of leaders right now in this country alone in the US alone.

78 percent of leaders are struggling with lack of confidence. 70 percent That's huge. That's most that's most of us. Right? Um, and that's just the ones who admitted it. Right. So I'm willing to bet it's more. And so, you know, what, what I try to do with organizations, number one is I try to show leaders of organizations that we have to stop looking at things like self confidence, or maybe you've heard the term imposter phenomenon.

We have to stop looking at these things as personal problems. These [00:20:00] are problems that have the power to impact everyone else in the organization. Because from a statistical standpoint, if a leader is struggling with confidence, they're going to struggle with having tough conversations. They're going to struggle with being innovative.

They're going to struggle with holding people accountable. There's all these things that they're going to struggle with. And guess what? All of those things do what they impact the business, right? Because if you don't have a cohesive, innovative team, that are meeting or exceeding goals or meeting or exceeding quality, then the organization is going to struggle.

I mean, that's just the bottom line. And so what I do with organizations and with leaders is I try to get them to tap into that. And so we do that in a lot of different ways, a lot of fun ways, but the bottom line is I try to get. the leadership team [00:21:00] to get to the roots of why they're having some of these internal, you know, self confidence issues or struggles.

And then from that point on, we start to build. And so a lot of what I said earlier when I said, because you asked, you know, how did you make that transition? And so really, I created this based on what I had to do for myself. Your own experience. It worked. Yeah. And that was really being intentional, looking for evidence, and then acting on it.

And that was it. It's a very simple, simple, simple way to do that. And what we do is we, we basically apply that methodology to all of the things, not all of the things, but the top, you know, three to five things that, leaders are accountable for within every organization. And we just kind of rinse and repeat that.

So that is where I spend all of my time is working with leaders on building confidence in leadership, but more [00:22:00] importantly, trying to show leaders of organizations, executive leaders of organizations, those decision makers, trying to show them the connection. Right. Because oftentimes they can't see it. So I have to show them that connection.

And once they see that connection, they go, Oh, my gosh, how quickly can you get here? And, and then it works. You know, I had a client, really short story. I had a client who I had been working with them for a year. And she is the CEO of an organization. And All of her departments are struggling and that's just to keep a story really short, you know, basically at the end of it, they hired me to do something else they wanted to, you know, their client satisfaction scores were decreasing every single day, really high turnover, uh, Low engagement scores, all these things, right?

[00:23:00] Productivity, quality, just everything was just not going well. And so they brought me in because they're like, we need you to help these teams like they need to get it together. And after the first day, I quickly determined that A big part of this issue is a lack of confidence in, in two of their executive leaders.

And we had a really tough conversation about it, started working the, working the, the model, the plan. And what is so cool is I had a call with them in January, um, earlier this, this, this month. And she said to me, Therese, I got to tell you something. I got to tell you something and she said, you know, I've been applying everything and we're doing all the things and I'm excited because this is happening.

That's happening. And then she said, I got to tell you this really, really cool thing in January of 2024. She said their audit scores were averaging right at about 16%. That's 16% out of a hundred. Hmm. Okay. That's like an F minus, right? . And, I [00:24:00] mean, I don't even know if it's an F. F might be lower than an F, but it, the average scores, audit scores 16%.

And then she said as, and then she said as of January, 2025, the average audit scores were 82%. Wow. So anytime someone says, to me, confidence is a personal thing. I say, well, I'm going to call you a liar because it's not true. That is an example of applying certain things to helping leaders build confidence so that they can do these things and be more productive and grow their teams and have more cohesive teams so that you can get these kinds of results.

16 percent to 82 percent in the space of 12 months. It's crazy,

Sadaf Beynon: but it can be done.

Therese Gopaul-Robinson: It absolutely can be done.

Sadaf Beynon: So question, if a business is trying, is hiring someone, looking to hire someone and the particular role needs a level of confidence. Before they [00:25:00] arrive into it, how do they, how do they figure out what kind of confidence the person should already walk into the door with?

See what I'm trying to say? Because they might lose confidence once they're in the role because of imposter syndrome. Mm hmm. Mm

Therese Gopaul-Robinson: hmm.

Sadaf Beynon: But how much of that is the businesses issue? And how much of that is the, is a personal thing? Because is there, it can't, I guess what I'm trying to say, like, is there a personal aspect of it as well?

Therese Gopaul-Robinson: Yeah. So there's a, there's absolutely a personal aspect of it for sure. Right. Because Therese walks into the, the organization, there's a really good chance that I'm walking into that organization with, you know, some of my old baggage, if you may, um, you know, where I'm already having some, you know, hesitancy and things like that.

And so what I try to tell organizations is, yes, there is a, there is a degree of this [00:26:00] that is personal for sure, because we're human beings. And this is human, right? This is personal stuff. We are leading humans. And so it's important that we understand that. However, the way that we can determine that is we have to really make sure that These competencies.

So you know, every organization has leadership competencies, for example, right? Every leader should be able to do these 10 things, whatever, whatever they are. And so what I work with executive leaders on is making sure that those leadership competencies, those things that drive success within the organization, all have some undertone of confidence in it, right?

So some of the things would be things like, Okay. Are, are we able to lead through uncertain times? What does that look like? How are you fostering innovation? Can you, how are you, what are the things that you're doing to drive employee [00:27:00] engagements? How are you connecting to your busy teams? How are you holding other people accountable?

Now on the surface it might feel like, well that's not really confidence. But it actually is because, let me, let me put it to you this way Sadaf. Have you ever had a tough conversation with somebody? Okay. How did that go? How did you feel? Think about one of the toughest conversations you had, like when you were approaching that conversation.

Sadaf Beynon: Um, really nervous about which way it could go. Uh huh.

Therese Gopaul-Robinson: And what did you do to prepare for how

Sadaf Beynon: it would be received rather?

Therese Gopaul-Robinson: Yeah. So you were nervous about how it would go. You were nervous about how it would be received. So what did you do before having that conversation?

Sadaf Beynon: Psych myself up. No, I think for me, it's like making sure I've got all my facts.

[00:28:00] Straight. I know exactly what I want to say, what I need to say, what needs to be communicated and what doesn't need to be communicated.

Therese Gopaul-Robinson: Right. And so all of those are the things that you can do to build your confidence, walking into that conversation. Right? So if you were, if you were the leader that I was working with, I would do exactly that.

I would say, okay, let's come up with a plan. What are the things that you want to say? What are the things, first of all, is this important? Do we need to have this conversation right now? That's the first thing. Is it important enough? Do we need to have this conversation right now? And if you say yes to us, yes, yes, yes, yes, I need to do this.

Then we, then I say, okay, well, let's put together a plan for that conversation, right? And then, and then you need to actually have the courage to actually do the thing. Now, if the other person on the end, you have to, you know, we are. Some, somewhere along the line, sometimes we forget that we're working with people.

Um, and so we have to remember that there's a whole other human on the other side of this conversation. And it's a [00:29:00] human that we want to maintain a relationship with. At the end of the day, and I say that, and people might say, well I don't know. I kind of want to terminate them. So I don't know that I want to maintain a relationship.

And I would say that's not true. You want to maintain, you want to maintain a relationship with the other person on the end of that conversation, regardless of what that conversation is about. Even if it's a termination, believe it or not, you can terminate somebody and walk away maintaining that relationship.

If you know how to do it. And so when we look at the competencies for leaders, we want to make sure that the competencies, the skills, the leadership competencies, whatever you want to call it, whatever those things are that we're saying, This is what my leadership team must demonstrate. All of those things really should have this kind of undertone of confidence.

Can you take risks? Are you afraid of change? Can you make fast, good decisions and feel confident in those decisions? Do you hesitate? [00:30:00] Do you second guess? Can you go against the grain? These are all the things that require a level of confidence in your leader that many leaders don't have. And so when we look at all the industries right now, we're seeing this, you know, just incredible influx of things like layoffs.

We're seeing organizations that, you know, are kind of flat or in the red. We're seeing all of these things. But when you peel back those layers, And this is what I tell organizations every single time. I don't care what the problem is. Clients aren't happy. Employees are turning over whatever your story is.

Every single time you give me a problem, I promise you I can follow the breadcrumbs and it's always going to lead me to your leadership team. A hundred percent of the time. And if I sit down and have a conversation with them, I'm willing to bet that there's something in there that they're struggling with.

And that's why we're seeing some of these things happening. It's a [00:31:00] domino

Sadaf Beynon: effect.

Therese Gopaul-Robinson: Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, it's a very interesting topic. And, um, yeah, and it's, it's, it's really incredible to see when people, um, start to build their confidence and get and feel good about what they're doing and secure.

It's incredible what happens, the shift that happens and, and the boost in the culture within that organization. Even that same leader that I just mentioned earlier, she's, you know, to res, we decided To do an offsite, like team building activity. We've never done one because we can barely get people to participate when we do stuff in house.

And she was like, we did an offsite. And she said, 95 percent of the people who RSVP that said they were coming, they all showed up. And she said, we actually had to like. Kick people out at the end. Like they did not want to leave. And that's because she has a new confident leader. She set the [00:32:00] tone for the entire team.

And she showed them that she was confident enough in her ability to lead them and train them that she believed in their ability to achieve really great things. She set that tone. And now everybody is being just More collaborative, more engaging, you know, they all have ownership. Now, it's just a really cool thing to see that happens.

And it really just starts off with you building confidence in yourself as a leader. That's where it starts. You set the tone. You lead by example. Period.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. No, that's, it's really interesting what you're talking. It's fascinating, actually, what you're saying. And as, as you were saying just now about setting the tone, it made me think of, you know, it's, it's the same.

In a home, it's, it's what it's, it's the tone that the parents set the, the dad and mom, and then it filters down and that's, you know, as, as we were saying before, it has a knock [00:33:00] on effect on the rest of the family and how you, how you, um, are able to perform and do whatever needs doing. Yeah, it's really, really interesting.

And cause you can just take. The same model and just put it in so many different environments. Exactly. Exactly.

Therese Gopaul-Robinson: And that's, what's just so important is that we have to recognize that. Although to your point, although, yes, I came into the organization. Hmm. I had my confidence issues. It does impact everybody else.

And you also said something earlier where you mentioned, you know, it might display itself in different ways, right? One person would read it as this. Another person would read it like as this. And research has shown that people, especially those who are lacking confidence, they're normally referred to as Micromanagers.

Have you ever heard of that? Have you ever worked with a micromanager? They are distant, they are disconnected, all of these things. But what we [00:34:00] don't realize is, you know, that micromanagement stuff that's happening. It's not because of you, that person who's reporting to the leader. It's because of the leader.

The leader does not have confidence in their ability to train you and teach you. And so that's why there's this micromanaging happening. So that I have to make sure, did you do that thing? Did you get that thing done? Let me look at it. Okay, wait, let me see. Don't send anything until I look at it. Don't because of the fact that I am not confident enough in the fact that I trained you Sadaf.

Enough to be independent. I'm afraid, I'm afraid of making any mistakes. Fear is a big part of this as well. And if we are afraid of these things, then it's going to be really hard to be creative, innovative, and take risks. I mean, that's just the bottom line. If we have all this fear around us. So there's a lot of fear going on, especially now in this climate, especially now in all of [00:35:00] these different industries with layoffs and things happening.

And so now more than ever, there's a significant need for leaders to build their confidence, to grow their teams, even in hard financial times and in uncertain times.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, fear can be really debilitating, can't it?

Therese Gopaul-Robinson: Oh my gosh, yes, absolutely. I've been there, done that several times. Several times. Yeah. Yeah.

It's, uh, and it's unfortunate because most people are, are, they have those underlying fears.

Chris,

Sadaf Beynon: I'm curious what helped you put yourself out there and establish credibility in this space?

Therese Gopaul-Robinson: So, well, you know, um, this is yet another story that I wish I could, I really wish I could say to you, Sadaf, I woke up one morning and realized I had this message to share with the world.

And that's just not true. Um, what happened for me was in 2021, um, I was [00:36:00] working for an organization and after a few years of just really Hitting the targets and hitting doing all the things that I should have been doing in that role We've been talking about a promotion for a while and there was a call scheduled to do a deep dive kind of review of the ins and outs of a potential promotion what that would look like and so on and Got on that call was really excited nervous Excited because we're finally like deep dive like we're gonna talk through it and kind of Make a plan.

And on that promotion call, I was actually fired. So, so talk about a boost to your confidence, right? Um, that's not what happened. Um, but yeah, so I was terminated on the same day that I was actually asking for a promotion and having supposed to be having a promotion conversation. And so, you know, what [00:37:00] happened for me after that was, um, A lot of sadness, a lot of, um, fear.

And the, the worst part of all of that was at that time, um, being terminated in the way that I was during the time that I was, um, again, in the midst of having a promotion conversation, um, what happened in that moment was all the negative things I thought about myself at that time. I felt like that termination confirmed it.

You know, it really just said to me, see, I knew it, I knew it, I knew I didn't belong here, I knew I didn't deserve to ask for that promotion, um, so what happened after that was just a lot of sadness, a lot of fear, um, a lot of just not knowing what to do next, and again, I would love to say to you that I just [00:38:00] I'm going to believe in myself and this is going to be a new day for me and that's not what happened.

Really what happened was I had a really great support system and my husband was a huge part of that because you know, he really looked at me one Sunday. I'll never forget. It was a Sunday morning. We're having coffee and he said, we need to have a conversation. And I thought to myself, Oh. That's not, I can't be good.

And he just said, you know, Terez, you've been, you've been talking about pursuing all of these big things and these dreams. And you always said, man, if I ever had a chance, I'd love to do these things. And he said, I think this is your chance. If you don't realize, I think that, I think the chance is now. And so.

That was the first step for me in figuring out what, you know, business would look like figuring out what my message might be, but it started off. And this is something else I tell people all of the time. If you don't [00:39:00] believe in yourself right now, that's okay. But you need to find someone who does believe in you and borrow their belief in you just for a little while.

And so that's what I did. I borrowed his belief. In me. And that was really what started all of it and it was messy, it was icky, I was all over the place, I had no strategy, I wasn't even sure what I wanted to do but what I did know was I didn't want other people to feel The way that I'd been feeling for so long that I knew, and that was really kind of what started off for me in building this whole thing out.

And so now I do a lot of consulting work with organizations, but primarily I'm a professional speaker and I and I speak about this and all of the different areas of this topic with organizations. But that's really how it started. It started because [00:40:00] I was at one of the lowest points in my life. And there was someone who believed in me and I borrowed that belief and that was the beginning.

That was the beginning. And then many, many no's and many, many mistakes later, here I am. And I'm still around, still here.

Sadaf Beynon: No, that's fantastic. That's a great story. And I love how you talk about you borrowed his, his belief in you. I think that that is, that's a really good point. And I think we all come to a point in our lives where we need that. We need to just see ourselves through someone else's eyes. And

Therese Gopaul-Robinson: yeah, yeah. And you know, and again, if you, you can put that, like you said, you can, you can take that concept and you can apply that at home.

You can apply that at work, right? Because the person whose belief you're going to borrow is your leader, your mentor, your coach, your whatever you want to call them. Um, that's what you're doing, right? [00:41:00] Because there's a leader who's looking at you and saying, Sadaf, I know you can do this. I'm going to trust you to do it.

And I'm here. I'm here if you need me, but go for it. Like, it's okay. You can do that. And so, you know, it can be applied in any situation and any aspect of your life for sure. And that's what I do. I say, Hey, look, if you have nobody else I'm here, I believe in you. I'll, I'll let you borrow some of this.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Therese Gopaul-Robinson: I have some of my belief in you, but I need it back

Sadaf Beynon: for

Therese Gopaul-Robinson: later. Um, but yes, I, I think it's, it's really important that we all have that. And, you know, there's a lot of studies out there that talk about that. And I, I don't want to get into the studies because some of it is like, yeah, controversial, but the bottom line is this oftentimes when someone else believes that we can do something, it pushes us to strive for more.

It really does.

Sadaf Beynon: Especially if that person is someone that you really trust.

Therese Gopaul-Robinson: Yes, yes, absolutely. [00:42:00] And I've been very lucky to have a good community of people like that around me, even in this side of what I do now. And even though I will definitely say my level of confidence is significantly higher than it was three years ago, there are still times.

Let me tell you, there are still times where I wake up and I go, why am I even trying to do this? There's no way. There are all these people out there. There's so much better than me and they might be better than me, um, in certain areas, but I just have to continue doing. And I think that's the thing too, is sometimes people misunderstand what confidence is.

People think confidence means I just can do it. I have no fear. This is going to be great. And that's not what confidence is. At least not in my opinion. Confidence is the ability to try.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Therese Gopaul-Robinson: That's it. See, trying requires nothing. It doesn't require skill. It doesn't require certificates. It doesn't [00:43:00] require accolades.

It just requires you to get up and do. That's it. And in doing and realizing that you can accomplish small things and you can do hard things, then your confidence starts to build. And now you're wanting to try harder things and bigger things. And now you're, you see, I mean, it's just like a little, it's a little process.

It takes time, but it, but confidence really is just, if we have to, if you only had five seconds to post what we need to say on this podcast, you'll say, Confidence is trying, that's it

Sadaf Beynon: in a nutshell. That's it. Love it. Love it. So Torres, you've built quite a unique framework then that helps leaders step into their confidence, um, within their, their, um, within their teams.

As, as you've grown your business, then how have you expanded your own reach and built authority in this space? [00:44:00]

Therese Gopaul-Robinson: So I, what's so interesting about this is I have really started to work with organizations that are primarily male dominant or industries that are male dominant. And I, I never really thought about it that way.

Until recently, I didn't think that, I mean, I kind of knew, but I didn't realize the, the need for this level of, uh, coaching amongst, um, leaders who are working in male dominated, um, in male dominant industries. So for example, agriculture. So this is a, an industry that I, you know, a year or two ago, I knew nothing about.

I come from healthcare. And, um, but what I've been able to do is work with a lot of these industries and organizations within these industries to help build a confidence amongst their women in leadership. And What is [00:45:00] really interesting about that sit off is that initially I was called into these organizations to talk to the women in their leadership teams to help them build confidence.

But what happened, which was really kind of cool, was a lot of the male leaders. said, my gosh, like everything you're saying, it resonates with me. And, you know, people tend to think sometimes that us as men in the workplace, like, you know, we don't have fear, we don't struggle with some of these things. And the reality is that we struggle with a lot of the same things.

And so for me, in terms of reach, you know, my message is not specific to, uh, to anyone anymore, because what I'm realizing is regardless of. identifying gender, regardless of industry, regardless of position, we are all dealing with very similar feelings in terms of our confidence. And so I, you know, obviously I work with a lot of organizations in terms of, uh, [00:46:00] consulting, but I.

I present a lot of my programs on bigger stages and bigger platforms, and I do a lot of, I try to meet people where they're at in terms of how they can consume the information that I have, and so whether it's on a bigger stage or if it's more of a smaller stage. Hey, I just want a checklist. I just want to, you know, I'm ready to have a difficult conversation.

What are the things that I should do as I prepare for that? These are resources that I try to provide for people. Um, if they just come to my website, they can grab that stuff. So there's a lot of different things. I'm doing a lot of, um, volunteer work with some organizations, um, that are trying to, uh, help their emerging leaders.

I'm also doing a lot of work in health care as well for physicians because physicians, that's another population that we assume don't need this kind of support when they probably need it the most. And so I do a lot of [00:47:00] work with physicians who are transitioning over into leadership roles. Um, a lot of physicians get leadership roles because of longevity because of clinical skill and so on.

Bye. They've not really gotten the training and development that they need to be. effective, strong, confident leaders. And so I do a lot of work with physician associations and medical associations and things like that as well. So I do a lot of different things. And the bottom line though, is that the message is always the same.

The message is always the same, regardless of who I'm

Sadaf Beynon: speaking to. Interesting. And you're kind of, um, going back into the healthcare industry too, with the. Oh,

Therese Gopaul-Robinson: yeah. You know, my heart is in healthcare. That's where I grew up. You know, I, my entire career was in the healthcare space. And so I will never leave that industry.

It's, you know, it's, it's what I know. But what I've realized is just this message just resonates with anybody, regardless of the industry. Um, and there's just definitely a [00:48:00] need for it more and more and more. And again, my mission is to reach out to anybody. Marilee. I'm honored to be able to help you. see, show people that confidence of confidence is not, it's no longer a personal thing.

It can't be, it absolutely cannot be because it is impacting Everyone and everything around us, and therefore we have to all have some level of ownership over what that looks like within our organizations.

Sadaf Beynon: Therese, tell me, looking back, what's one thing you wish you had done sooner when it comes to establishing yourself as a thought leader?

Therese Gopaul-Robinson: You know, I was just thinking about this yesterday. Um, yeah, I really was. I was thinking about this yesterday. So we're in the beginning of 2025. I got fired in the beginning of 2021. And as you know, I, again, I, I made that decision after having that conversation with my husband to start my business and I wish I was braver.[00:49:00]

Back in 2021. I wish I was braver because I, I don't like to use the word the term wasted time, but I will for this moment. I wasted a lot of time worrying about what other people would think of me starting my own business. I wasted a lot of time worrying about that. And as a result of that, I didn't I certain projects or organizations that I wanted to because I didn't think that they would want to work with me.

And I mean, who am I, right? Who, who, who am I to decide that I'm an expert in something? Um, I wish I was braver. I wish I was brave enough to try and I would say for the first two years, although I did, I was pretty successful. Um, my success really came because the people around me who had worked with me previously love the work that I did.

They tapped [00:50:00] me on the shoulder and said, can you come in and work with us? But I wasn't brave enough to go after the people who didn't know me. And so I wish if I could go back, um, yeah, but that's okay because now, um, I can share that I can share that with people to say, you know, it's okay to be brave.

It's okay to try that thing. It's okay to not feel. that you are equipped to tackle whatever that thing is and still go after it. You can still go after it because you'll figure it out. You're smart enough, you're capable enough, you can do it. Um, but you know, so that's one thing I would change, but I'm okay with it because I think there were a lot of lessons I learned along the way.

And that's a lot of things that I can teach other people now. But yes, absolutely. I wish I was braver. I'm braver now, but I'm not as brave as I'd like to be. And so that's one of actually my commitments for 2025 is Becoming outrageously courageous.

Sadaf Beynon: Love it. Love it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it [00:51:00] sounds like, um, it was that fear piece that that was kind of, you know, stopping you from from being right.

Therese Gopaul-Robinson: Yeah. Yeah. I've kind of carried for my entire life, unfortunately.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. No, I don't think you're alone in that at all. And I think what's really cool about your, your story and what you do is that I, you said too, that you've used your own experience of being intentional and, um. Look, sorry, what was it? Look, being intentional and being intentional.

Therese Gopaul-Robinson: Yeah. Looking for the evidence that's right around and then, and then acting on it. Exactly. The thing that will build momentum. I actually call that so I actually call that security stacking. Okay. So that's a term that I use and just visualize that, um, it's really stacking your securities. It is, you know, finding evidence all around you to build that [00:52:00] strength and you do that by security, security, security, security stacking.

So I actually call that security stacking where we continuously are finding evidence. We are continuously being intentional and we're continuously acting. All of that's just going to build momentum.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. And it's a process that you keep, as you said, rinse and repeat, right? Yeah. What's cool is that you're able to, because you've gone through it yourself, you're being able to teach that to other people and it can resonate so well, can't it?

Because you're talking from your own experience.

Therese Gopaul-Robinson: Yes. And I've worked with so many people at this point that now I don't even talk about myself anymore. When I share examples, now I just share their wins and their. You know their stories because there's so many of them and um, you know, and I'm just so proud of that.

I'm very humbled Buy it as well. I get, I, it's so funny even now, years later, and my clients always, they just make fun of me because I get so emotional over it when I see them being successful. And they're like, [00:53:00] Oh my gosh, and it's like, because I'm just, I'm just so proud because you know, all that's going to do again, it's setting the tone.

And so there are these emerging leaders that are coming up behind us. There are brand new employees coming in through the door. And how cool is that? For you to be this example of what confidence looks like and what you can achieve. You know, when you are that confident as a leader, um, it just, it just gets me.

So, you know, I, I just, I love it. And I, I, it makes me just excited every day to get up and do the work that I do for sure. I love it.

Sadaf Beynon: That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Um, Therese, I'm really conscious of time. Um, so we'll move on. How do people reach you?

Therese Gopaul-Robinson: So you can find me on LinkedIn. It's just my name. I'm sure you're going to put it in the show notes somewhere, but.

it's Therese Gopaul-Robinson and I'm on LinkedIn. I live primarily there. I'm on Instagram as [00:54:00] well at Therese underscore go Paul Robinson. But all that said, you can just jump on my, my website. It's a Therese gr. com and that's. T H E R E S E G R dot com. And there you can connect with me, um, in several different ways. So those are the three primary ways that you can reach out to me.

Sadaf Beynon: Awesome. Thank you for that. We will be sure to put that into the show notes. Awesome. Therese, thank you so much for your time. It's been a real privilege to talk to you.

Therese Gopaul-Robinson: Oh, no, thank you. And this, you're doing some really great stuff here, Sadaf. And I'm just, I'm really proud of you. And I'm, I'm, I'm just really thrilled that you invited me to be on this show.

I really appreciate it.

Sadaf Beynon: Well, that's a wrap on another great conversation. A massive thanks to Therese for joining us and sharing a part of her journey. For transcript or show notes, do swing by our website, pushtobemore. com. And a big thanks to today's sponsor Podjunction for all you change makers out there [00:55:00] contemplating podcasting as your new vehicle of expression and connection, definitely connect with us at podjunction.

com. And now don't forget to follow the show wherever you get your podcasts because we've got more conversations coming up and we don't want you to miss any of them. So from Therese and from me, thanks for joining in, have an awesome week and we'll catch you next time. Bye for now.