How One Conversation Changed My Entire Career | Kenneth Gembel II

Sadaf Beynon (00:00)

Welcome to Conversations That Grow. If you've been listening to Push To Be More, you'll notice things look a little bit different here today. And that's because we've rebranded to Conversations That Grow, a podcast where we explore how meaningful conversations open doors, create opportunities, and drive business success. It's fascinating to me just how a single conversation can change the course of someone's life or business.

Ken Gembel (00:01)

I'm just saying.

to me.

Sadaf Beynon (00:24)

And when you start to notice those moments, you realize just how powerful the right conversation at the right time can be. And that's why I wanted to shift the focus of the podcast to dig into the stories, the insights, and pivotal moments where conversations made a real difference. And today's guest knows all about that. So meet Dr. Ken Gembel. Ken has built and transformed businesses from the ground up, leading everything from high-performance manufacturing operations to game-changing startups.

As the founder of Luck Unlimited, which stands for Laboring Under Complete Knowledge, he's proving that success isn't random. It's about having the right systems, the right strategy, and the right mindset. Ken, welcome to Conversations That Grow.

Ken Gembel (01:08)

Thank you very much and thanks for that fantastic introduction.

Sadaf Beynon (01:11)

You're very welcome. Ken, you've had such a fascinating journey leading businesses, building systems, mentoring others, and even launching an apparel brand. But behind every big shift, there's usually a conversation or series of conversations that change the way we see things, whether in business, leadership, or life in general. So let's start there. What's a conversation you've had that fundamentally changed the way you think about business, leadership, or even life?

Ken Gembel (01:41)

When I was an intern, when I started my very first job, I worked at a company called American Axle Manufacturing and we had a very engaged and dynamic CEO that was very pivotal between him and his sons and early on in my career, you know, when you go through college, so when you mentioned that I have a PhD, I got a PhD in industrial engineering and I have a master's in manufacturing engineering, an undergrad in metallurgical and materials engineering.

When I was younger, you really don't know what you want to do with your career. When I met that Richard E. Dauch and I met his sons, really changed what I realized I could do with my life. so there was a specific conversation that we had at the end of my internship, though, with him, where he was asking me very pointed questions about a very big and important project within the company.

Sadaf Beynon (02:14)

Mm-hmm.

Ken Gembel (02:35)

During the conversation, I was delivering him some bad news that I could tell he did not realize was going on. And it didn't get volatile, but I could tell by the way he was taking notes and I could just read it. I mean, a little bit, was kind of, I don't want to say scared inside, but I could tell. was like, man, am I going to get in trouble for this conversation? Because I don't know what he really knows. But then I'm also like, he might already know.

and I'm verifying what he knows. So my thing was always tell the truth. So when he was asking me these questions, I was telling him about grades of materials that wouldn't meet the requirement and the welding operation that I was dealing with and what was causing the failures. But the cool thing that came out of it was when he went in and did the forensics on it, I was correct and he listened to me.

But I remember connecting it and thinking, I remember working thinking, man, all this engineering stuff I'm doing, it's actually applicable. When you're in it and you haven't worked yet, you're kind of like, this is a waste of time. This physics, this thermodynamics, this statics class, all this materials, crystalline structures, you're learning this. What we're really learning to do is set up a problem. But I remember with him, I was helping him.

address a big problem and he trusted me. But meeting him and his sons made me realize that learning was pretty cool. Like then it kind of connected it that this stuff is applicable. Like I really was just trying to make enough money to buy a pickup truck and a dirt bike. So I didn't have the loftiest goals when I was starting my career. that meeting him really changed my life and the conversation we had.

at the end of my first internship really changed how I thought I could develop my own career, but also how I could add value to a business. So a little bit of a long story there, but it really was a critical one, and I reflect back on it continuously.

Sadaf Beynon (04:38)

That's fantastic. Thank you so much for sharing that. I love how you said that learning was pretty cool. I really like that phrase. Tell me how...

Ken Gembel (04:46)

Well, when you're young,

I don't need to, but when you're young, you think the smart kids are nerds. And you don't understand that all the stuff that you, if you learn the right things, especially for you, because everybody likes different things, you can add tremendous value to something. And you don't really, but that's what I learned. mean, the one, and I still talk to Rick frequently, Rick Dauch's son, mean, he's CEO of a company called Workhorse.

Sadaf Beynon (04:53)

Yeah.

Ken Gembel (05:15)

But he was CEO of Delphi, and they were based out of the UK for a bit. And he led the merger with Borg-Warner. But he was a West Point grad, MIT grad, captain of the football team at West Point, an engineer, just a really cool guy. And I'd just never seen somebody like that. other son, Dick's other son, David, is a very intelligent sales marketing guy. He's the CEO of American Axle now. they were both.

both guys that kind of made learning these things cool. And actually, I kind of wish I would have got into the marketing side earlier that David was in. It reaches so many things. Like you can do automotive stuff, business to business. You can do sports and athletic stuff, which I like a lot. So that's pretty cool. Yeah, it was a very pivotal time in my life and it really influenced me. mean, that was over 27 years ago that I had that conversation.

Sadaf Beynon (05:52)

Yeah.

Ken Gembel (06:13)

And I can still remember being in the room. can remember meeting his sons. I can remember them giving me guidance. You know, so yeah, it was was really cool though.

Sadaf Beynon (06:20)

Hmm. Yeah,

that is, that sounds very cool. So tell me how he took the bad news you were delivering.

Ken Gembel (06:33)

Well, he realized that this project we were working on had some major milestones that needed to be overcome if we were gonna be successful. Ultimately, it drove him to leave the company where we changed course to it, because we were doing a very advanced manufacturing process and welding technique that wasn't readily done in high-volume manufacturing, and it made them draw the strings back on it. But it really came from me.

As an intern, I mean, I was telling them, I'm like, hey, I'm doing the weld analysis on every single one of these. And here's what I see. And here's the risk. And you can fix it with this. But this costs you a lot more money to change the material grade. And we still were successful. We just did a lot more traditional things in that business segment that we were working in. But.

Yeah, it did. It changed the course of what we would have done as a business and maybe saved us, you know, potentially saved us an issue with a customer, our main customer that could have been a little bit of a black eye for the company and maybe even jeopardize some business. So it's tough to look back because we went a different way. We did the traditional things we did. But it was cool that, you know, literally as like a 21, 22 year old engineer that wasn't even graduated yet that

He literally took everything I said serious and then investigated it and then made a decision based on what he found based off my discussion.

Sadaf Beynon (08:00)

Yeah, yeah, I he sounds like he had some great leadership qualities.

Ken Gembel (08:06)

He did, he did.

Very, very, very aggressive, but in a good way. Also, in a way he could see more in you than you've seen in yourself, and he would try to draw that out of everybody.

Sadaf Beynon (08:19)

Yeah, that's fantastic. also sounds from what you're saying, you didn't just lay out all the problems, you also offered solutions to him as to what you thought was going on, what you think could be done about it. So I think that's quite valuable as well, isn't it?

Ken Gembel (08:34)

Yes.

Yes. Well, my dad told

me early, don't bring me problems, bring me solutions. So, and you know, my dad is another one of my influential guys, but he was like the, he was an automotive guy that I wish I would have listened to earlier. You know, it's your dad and I have daughters now and they're fantastic, but there's always this element of because it's my dad, I would rather, they'll take advice from someone they don't know as well than they well from maybe a parent. So kids listen to your parents.

Sadaf Beynon (08:45)

Yeah, that's good.

Yeah.

Hmm.

Yeah.

Ken Gembel (09:08)

Who wants the best for you?

Sadaf Beynon (09:08)

Yeah.

Yes. Tell me what Richard said to you that hit so hard in that conversation.

Ken Gembel (09:20)

Well, were a couple other times when I One time I went to him and I was really frustrated about something going on. And he was like, I don't want you to be frustrated. I want you to be focused. was just, I just set you back a little bit because he's like, essentially being emotional doesn't do anything to solve the problem. And.

Another thing that he would say is, I'm OK with mistakes. I'm not OK with mediocrity. He's like, I want us to be the absolute best. And that takes a relentless pursuit. So those are a couple. The paradigm of the company was all built on that type of cultural element where it was. If you look at any team that wins a lot and

I'm gonna say it, they're wired to kick ass. You're wired to go in and dominate. You're wired to be relentless. You're trying to embarrass the other team. mean, it was that environment that, but the business world is that dynamic where if you don't take advantage of the opportunity and you leave things on the table, you run the risk of.

bankrupting your own company or missing an opportunity because things were going good, they could have been going great and someone else seizes it and then you're put in a vulnerable position. And so I always from him, I always created this mindset of like a winning team, like an Alabama Crimson Tide or the 2023 Michigan Wolverines or the Patriots like of just wanting to be excellent and wanting to do as much as I could do to have value in the company.

Sadaf Beynon (11:06)

Yeah, I can see that from how you described him before, like how he sees something in you before you see it in yourself. And if he's pushing you to be excellent and to push yourself rather than be mediocre at what you do, I can see how that would bring out the best in you.

Ken Gembel (11:28)

You learn from it though that. Well, there were were times when the mentoring felt like tormentoring. But he but he it's that thing you like being great is not easy and I think it's something that we look at excellence and we want that, but we're not always interested in doing all the work that's behind it that gets you there like we complain about.

Sadaf Beynon (11:38)

Ha

Ken Gembel (11:57)

things we didn't earn for work we didn't do. And that was a big place where I just learned that you can add a lot of value. And so I've never been a guy that's like, want raises, I want a title. And there were even numerous times in my career where I would say, give me the opportunity. I don't want money. If I do what I say we can do, you can adjust my title and my compensation. Give me the opportunity.

Sadaf Beynon (12:24)

love that.

Ken Gembel (12:25)

I

just want to show you that I can add more value. And so that's always been my proposition. Even as a consultant, my goal is for you to see things that you're missing, because we went through some brutal recessions in the United States here. I know during that time, we refinanced, because I was still at moment, we refinanced the company to have the cash flow to weather our two main customers being bankrupt. And I know during that time, there were still opportunities

that other executives had seen in the company that wish they'd been more aggressive going after. But it's too late. You've missed the opportunity, left the money on the table, and that's where it gets risky. So a lot of times, it's easy to look and go, oh, things are going really well. We got wind in our sails. You really need to be super engaged in the business that you're in so that

You're prepared to weather any type of storm and that's kind of I look back at those things and and seeing a lot of companies go bankrupt and we didn't. Because we were very aggressive out in the front of it. We could have been maybe there's always hindsight 2020. But we were always very aggressive. We were always very passionate and those were the things that made us weather a storm that a lot of companies didn't. We didn't go bankrupt. We had three months with almost no revenue back in the the 2009 timeframe.

You know, so those, that American Axle time theory was very beneficial that I made that decision to go there and be developed as young professional.

Sadaf Beynon (13:52)

Mm-hmm.

Right. So Ken, you've said a couple times about how you really wanted to add value to something more so than being compensated and so on and so forth. I'm wondering, did that mindset come out of that conversation that Richard had with you, or was it something that developed over time after observing him and seeing how he does things and how he runs his business?

Ken Gembel (14:31)

You know, you always compare yourself to others, no matter what, even when you try not to, you're like, I'm just doing what I need to do that I think is the right thing for me. But I would watch other guys go to human resources and be like, if you don't give me this, I'm gonna leave. If you don't do this, I'm gonna leave. And I just remember seeing that and thinking those guys look like whiners and they're not really adding value. I would let them go. But I always thought, I'm not gonna do that. I'm gonna earn my way.

Sadaf Beynon (14:59)

Hmm.

Ken Gembel (15:01)

I'm going to do things that are different. And so, honestly, I'm not an academic. I can do academic research. There's elements I do like of looking into things, but I'm really not a guy that likes to work by. I'm better in a team atmosphere, a lot better. And I like aligning people into a vision. So that's kind of my approach. Maybe it's from my dad. My dad would interview for opportunities, because he stayed his whole career at General Motors. And.

He was all but dissertation of a PhD. So I just tried to do things that would separate myself so that people would want to give me an opportunity because they knew that I would do things that were more difficult than other people. And I wouldn't complain about it. I tried to be a solution, not a problem. so, you know, when people, you know, sometimes though people look at you and that can be a form of intimidation though, because they're like, well, this guy.

Sadaf Beynon (15:39)

Hmm.

Ken Gembel (15:57)

You know, they don't understand what you do. They see what you get, you know? I mean, even the PhD, like everybody would like to be called doctor, but they didn't see the 12 years I spent working on that while I was working, raising two kids, moving internationally, changing companies. Like, I lost a lot of personal time. I sacrificed a lot of personal time to have that.

Sadaf Beynon (16:01)

Yeah.

Hmm. Hmm. That's interesting. So, can you also say that this conversation that you had with Richard was very impactful and pivotal in your life. What else changed then because of that conversation? What impact did it have going forward on your work and on your life?

Ken Gembel (16:26)

the news.

and I'll see

I didn't really understand leadership as much back then. So I originally thought I was gonna come in as a metallurgical engineer, go into a lab, work on advanced welding processes and either do some lab work, set up the new systems for operation. But it honestly made me think, you know what? I don't necessarily wanna be an engineer. I wanna learn the business end of it. it put me, and I volunteered to go into some supervision roles where I was supervising.

inner city workforce, off shift, second shift, third shift, launching new manufacturing lines. So it made me want to focus more on the leadership side, because then I could see it relates to that team element that sometimes the sum of your team is greater when you align them properly. It's almost exponential when you start getting the synergies of the team working together.

And I got more intrigued by that. really started my PhD I was going to do on transformational leadership, but I didn't really want to do qualitative work. I wanted to make my work more quantitative. because if you send a summary to anybody, they're going to tell you they're doing things. If you know you got a Likert scale, it's a one to a five. They're going to tell you they're on the high end of it. Whatever is not in my experience, because I would see people I work with send it back. And I'm like, yeah, there is no way.

Sadaf Beynon (17:49)

Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Ken Gembel (18:09)

or five. know, so I didn't want to be, didn't want, because that skews the data too and it makes it more complicated. So I wanted things that were a little more data driven and scientific. So that's how I changed my thing. But I really am intrigued by the leadership side because it makes a huge difference. And when you you jump on LinkedIn and all people do is talk about leadership and everybody wants to be a leadership consultant. And so yeah, that's that that

made me wanna go, so then I was negotiating with unions, addressing people not working properly, and kind of like the cultural things that you maybe learn about about United States auto working unions. And while I am saying there are some bad things, I would say of like the UAW, they're 90 % phenomenal people. And that 90 % will literally when you...

Sadaf Beynon (18:53)

Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Ken Gembel (19:04)

Share information with them talk to them listen to their problems find solutions They're fantastic, but there is five to ten percent of them that that require that 80 % of your time like the 80-20 rule. There's not 20 % that are bad It's more that there's there's 10 % that are phenomenal that 10 % if you give them what they need and you don't Shove additional work on them bring the 80 % up to the high end

Sadaf Beynon (19:19)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Ken Gembel (19:33)

If you focus on the bad people and you give them your attention, that 80 % also thinks, yeah, I don't want any part of that game, because Ken is riding the hell out of me. But they see it. They're like, yeah, mean, Brown's not doing his job. So you don't do your job. Ken gives you a lot of focus. I think we'll go this way.

So, you my approach got very aggressive at addressing the bottom performing people, very supportive of the high performing people and turning the middle people into wanting them to perform better because it made things easier for them.

Sadaf Beynon (20:02)

Hmm.

Yeah. And what kind of impact did you see then amongst your workers?

Ken Gembel (20:20)

You know,

when I look back at my Facebook account, my personal, I still have people from when I was a supervisor back in 1998 on my account. You I have really good people that we still stay in touch. We exchange funny memes or, know, 30 years later, there've been quite a few people that we worked with that passed away that were really good people. They're sure like, hey, so-and-so passed away and...

Sadaf Beynon (20:24)

Hmm.

Ken Gembel (20:45)

you know, just some memories about them. So it kind of keeps a lot of things in the past connected. And I'm a big person on that because I drive a lot. was just telling you over the weekend for my kids, but in those drives, I try to stay connected to the people that I consider important or influenced me or that I just enjoyed.

Sadaf Beynon (21:05)

Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's very cool. I'm really intrigued to know how you did the qualitative piece for your PhD.

Ken Gembel (21:11)

Thank

So I focused on making a maturity model. So my PhD was I developed a structured methodology for tailoring and deploying lean manufacturing systems. What I learned was is I would see a lot of CEOs and stuff come in and everything was on a five scale, like one to five. And they're like, I want our lean systems to be a five. Well, five is super mature.

Sadaf Beynon (21:43)

Mm-hmm.

Ken Gembel (21:47)

But I also seen a lot of times in there people would only dress their facility up and really adhere to the systems right before, like an operations review or an audit. I learned that there's a discipline element to lean manufacturing. And it's a lot with athletics, like great athletes are unbelievably disciplined and committed and they're willing to sacrifice where they're at right now for what they will be in the future.

knowing that that's what they want. They're not worried about having dessert tonight. They're not worried about a movie tonight. They're worried about, want to be on the U of hockey team in four years. Or I want to be a professional motocross racer. And so for that, need to do this element of training. I have this much of a gap. So the

Sadaf Beynon (22:26)

Hmm.

Ken Gembel (22:41)

the quantitative side of it, what I did was I created a maturity model where I looked at how difficult it was to do a deployment based on where they were at from a discipline to numerous systems within a business that relate to lean manufacturing. So I kind of created, I didn't, I created a maturity model that leveraged a difficulty multiplier based off how disciplined your business runs.

Sadaf Beynon (23:10)

Right.

Ken Gembel (23:10)

that

helps me forecast how heavy of a lift your company will have to put these unbelievably disciplined systems in place. And that's why most companies in the US struggle, because that's mostly where my, Mexico, we did pretty good, but a lot of the US companies that I see, they don't.

Sadaf Beynon (23:19)

Thank

Ken Gembel (23:32)

hold their people accountable to the systems. And that's when people say it doesn't work. It's more that we don't follow the system. We don't really do what we say we're doing. We do about 80 % of it, but that 20 % has a massive impact on it. And so I can essentially forecast the amount of hours it's going to take you to put it in, which also allows you to help your team practice or.

predict the amount of time and schedule the workload out because the other thing is the systems while they're simple you're changing something that may have been done for 30 or 40 years in a business or it's it's been built over that You're basically over three to ten meetings scheduling This is how we're going to change the system to be to run on customer demand Not building up banks of inventory that we ship out and holding a ton of cash on the floor. So that's how I made it more quantitative

Sadaf Beynon (24:15)

Mm-hmm.

That's fascinating. I find that really fascinating. did it weed out certain people then that you would take on for the job?

Ken Gembel (24:34)

what it allows me to do is tell them we really got to slow the process down, or you need to engage them differently and set different standards that we're going to work to because it's so vastly different. And that's what I try to help them with is to see that because a lot of times the people that are telling them they want this outcome, they don't understand the details of the system. So they come into a meeting, say this is my expectation, then they expect to come back in a month and see this thing done.

Sadaf Beynon (24:45)

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Ken Gembel (25:04)

You can get it done, but it's a lot of lifting. Doing that with the current workload levels that people have to do. That's the other thing. You're not solely just changing this infrastructure that you use. You're running your current business and designing a new system. And so a lot of times you're building in, running things in parallel to validate that it works in the way you think before you fully turn it on. You're using it, but you're not using it. You're...

You're using your current system. You're saying, if we do things the way this is how it would look in the system to make sure. So what you don't want to do is put something in that has a detrimental effect to your business. So when we go to put it in, we want it to work. And that's what we do is we plan it out. We spend a lot more time planning than we do putting it in. If we plan it properly, the implementation becomes very simple.

Sadaf Beynon (25:48)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, that's very cool. Ken, listening to you speak, I can see how that conversation with Richard had a knock-on effect for everything that's come later as well for you in business and how you mentor even and how you build the team around you. That's really fascinating to see how that one conversation has had that knock-on effect.

Ken Gembel (26:14)

Thank you.

Sadaf Beynon (26:16)

You mentioned your dad as well. He had an influential role. I'd love to know more about that.

Ken Gembel (26:23)

Yeah, both my parents, my mom stayed at home, which was very beneficial to have that. My dad worked, but he got drafted in Vietnam. Actually, was funny that we're talking about this right now. Not funny, actually, but there was a video that came up of the Vietnam draft, and his date was number eight, pulled on the board. So he's 18, they're watching it on TV, they're like, all right, here's the draft sequence.

This date, this date, this date. Number eight was my dad's date. So he had started going to college. I actually don't know what he wanted to do when he started college. But he went to Vietnam, and then he came back. But when he came back, he started working at General Motors and started working on the line.

Sadaf Beynon (26:51)

Mm.

Ken Gembel (27:14)

using their tuition assistance and just picked away at getting a degree. He became an environmental engineer. He ran GM's environmental engineering group and then he did a master's and he was all but dissertation of his PhD while he was working. So I just learned that working hard will create your success. Honestly, the name of my company, the Laboring Under Complete Knowledge acronym was for my dad. He was going for a meeting.

He was going for an interview, and I remember, I maybe was like an eighth grader or a freshman in high school, and he says, hey, I'm headed to work. Because he would leave. He would get up and leave at like 4, 30, 5 o'clock in the morning. And he'd always say bye. And I was like, hey, good luck on the interview. And he's like, I've been Laboring Under Complete Knowledge. I made my luck. And I just thought. It just stuck with me. Like, I can remember that. And.

Sadaf Beynon (28:06)

Yeah.

Ken Gembel (28:08)

And so when I had to create my own business and essentially made a corporation, I was like, you know what? I'm going to name it, Laboring Under Complete Knowledge. So people look at luck as you getting something with an outside force or unknown entity creating what you get. We want to flip that. And we want to change the paradigm to where, if you look at laboring, laboring stands for doing hard things.

Sadaf Beynon (28:17)

.

Mm-hmm.

Ken Gembel (28:36)

under

is a state. So it's a state of doing hard things with the clear comprehension of actions that lead to success. That's our definition of luck. And it started out in the consulting. And I had the opportunity to work with some really cool companies like UGN, make carpet for Nissan, Toyota, Chrysler, Joe Gibbs Racing, a private equity called Point West Capital.

Exalta, the paint company, and it makes some tremendous influence. And it's a great paradigm for people to realize when we're going through stuff, because I always tell people, like, the changes we're going to make are very simple at face value, but they are going to take your team a lot of commitment, and they're going to be a lot harder because it's change. And a lot of times people may not enjoy their job. So now you're changing something you already don't really enjoy that much.

I enjoy the change. I enjoy the difficult situation. So I really do. I love trying to work through conflict because I'll go into situations and people are telling me every reason that we can't change something even when the outcome they currently have is bad. They're expediting $3 million a year because they're missing shipments. And they're telling me that they're good, they got it. And you're like, well.

Sadaf Beynon (29:58)

Hmm.

Ken Gembel (30:03)

If we look at the information, you've been expediting for six months already, $350,000 a month. So what have you changed from the start till now? And you get the look, like the crickets look. I was like, what? Give me the five things you've done over the past six months that are changing this, so we should start seeing it this month. I'm just trying to understand where we're at, because I don't know if we're at the beginning, the middle.

Sadaf Beynon (30:06)

Mm.

Ken Gembel (30:27)

And I just want to understand, I want to see how the changes you've made have influenced, because right now it looks consistent that we're missing it. And they do, they look at when they bring someone in from the outside, how can someone that doesn't know our business.

Sadaf Beynon (30:33)

Mm-hmm.

Ken Gembel (30:42)

find a solution. And the reason is because I don't create the solution. I help you create the solution. I listen to what you tell me the actual problems are. I listen to the management people. I go talk to the people on the floor because they're the people that are dealing with trying to execute the plan. It's like the infantry men of army. And so I never give a direction to the leadership without knowing what the people on the floor are going to have to work through.

Sadaf Beynon (31:00)

Mm-hmm.

Ken Gembel (31:10)

because they're the ones that actually have to do it. And I also like to incorporate them into the decision making process because if they know the problem and they tell you the solution and you do the solution, I guarantee they're gonna do it. But it's tough to do that. And bringing a third party and sometimes help break the barrier down because when someone's been there for 20 years and they come in and they're like, we wanna fix this now, you get the, we've been doing this. I mean, I had one lady.

Sadaf Beynon (31:10)

Hmm.

Ken Gembel (31:38)

She's like, Ken, I've been here for 30 years telling someone we gotta do this. She's like, I can't believe we got it done in a week. I was like, well, I said, a lot of it's how you, when you take this and you put it out to the team and that's where the lean system stuff comes in because a lot of times people do stuff and they don't write it down, they don't make a visual out of it as like a reminder.

And so I do a lot, there's a lot of techniques that I've seen through 27 years that help put it right in front of you and it communicates it to everybody. So everybody knows we're doing it. So when we're doing it, I don't want...

Sadaf Beynon (32:03)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Ken Gembel (32:14)

I don't want one person to not understand what the objective or goal is of the company. I want everybody to know it and everybody to go in that direction. So we make it very explicit. And we put it in places so everybody knows. So if we walk the floor and I'm like, hey, did you happen to see the board? They go, yeah, we're working on this. That's the message. Yeah. Do you agree with it? Yes. OK, we're good.

Or, you know, look, this could go wrong. So you write that thing down, you're like, all right, we're gonna look at it, we're gonna go to here, and if we still got it, I got your note and I appreciate that. But guess what? You got another board that you're writing down the action of the guy or the lady, you know? And it's a big tool that makes them realize, like, man, I just, I talk to somebody and they listen.

Sadaf Beynon (32:50)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah. And that's a gift. Yeah, that's a gift because you don't usually find people like that.

Ken Gembel (33:00)

It's amazing how much that works.

Well, I mean, like you, I want the solution to be simple. And the simplest way is to listen to people telling you what the problem is and that they know how to fix it. Like it is like, I believe that through all the problem solving I've done, I can figure out any problem. But I've also figured out that the people that deal with the problem help me figure it out. So instead of me having to muzzle through it and be like, Ken is a wizard that can figure anything out. I just really like talking to people and I like helping people.

Sadaf Beynon (33:11)

Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Ken Gembel (33:37)

And so while my blend is a bit aggressive, because I want us to get the solution, it's also a very servant type leadership style that it's aimed to help the people. I want people to go home at the end of the day, and when they're having dinner with their family go, today was phenomenal. We fixed this problem and be excited about it. And I can't wait to go on tomorrow, because we're going to fix these other things.

Sadaf Beynon (33:50)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Ken Gembel (34:03)

And that's what it's missing in a lot of manufacturing right now, because the sexy part of businesses, mergers, acquisitions, all this administrative office stuff that media likes, they don't like to talk about improving overall equipment effectiveness from 80 % to 83%, even though that can make millions of dollars of additional sales. It can reduce scrap costs. Like there's all these things that impact stock pricing and that out of that work.

so they don't focus on it or they didn't ever really come up through that so they're very intimidated going into that world because some of the people there can be a little gruffer, a little bit, a little more difficult when they've dealt with problems for a while. So you can influence it a lot.

Sadaf Beynon (34:51)

Yeah, yeah. No, this is fantastic. As you were talking to, the word that was coming to my mind was servant leadership as well. And it's so evident in how you conduct your business and how you come alongside people. And I think listening to what you said about Richard and your dad, you're mirroring the leadership that you've been given.

Ken Gembel (35:12)

Well,

mean, I'll give some people are some high level leaders have been like, Ken, you have your presence is intimidating. I'm like, passion can be construed as intimidating. Like, I'm not yelling at people. It's never that it's about like, let's get the solution. Like, why do we have to wait? That's another thing like, yeah, we'll get it in two weeks. Why can't we get it this weekend? We had one thing that we

Sadaf Beynon (35:28)

Mm.

Ken Gembel (35:42)

Improved in a business. We literally put fans on and you could turn a switch off and on and they're like we're gonna do this in a month I'm like five percent of the defect defects coming through the system right now are bad So five percent of everything you make goes to scrap very different process. I'm like I'm like we can't wait No, no one in the room should suggest that we wait. Why is it gonna take that long? Why can't we get?

The three fans today, I mean, it was literally less than $2,000 apart that was making millions of dollars of productivity improvement. And it was just, I'm like, guys, can we get it done today? Can we get it done in 12, like we have maintenance around the clock. What do we gotta do to put a plan in place to get it done? And there is times where you have to challenge people because.

It's like, yeah, we'll get it. Okay, so do you want to lose 5 % today, 5 % tomorrow, and 5 % on Wednesday, and Thursday, and Friday? No, you're running seven days a week. So you're losing 5 % on those days too.

And literally, we could turn the defect on, we put a light switch, turn the fans on, the defect goes away, it would blow the smoke and stuff out of a dryer, turn it off, defect comes back immediately. But that's one of those things you're like, we can't wait, we have to do it today. This is simple, it's simpler than you think. And they did it, that's the beauty of it, they did it, they turned it on, and it was, it's tough though because...

Sadaf Beynon (37:04)

Okay.

Ken Gembel (37:15)

It was change, right? Now people have to turn the switch off and on and they're a little bit like, I don't want to have to do that. Well, that's the best solution and it immediately changes it. And we can literally turn the defect off and on right now. so, that, people I think in life miss a lot of passion. Like I am a very passionate person. I want to love whatever I'm doing, whether it's helping a business.

whether it's racing dirt, like I love racing dirt, but I love riding dirt, because I don't race too much anymore just because it takes like a full day. I love going out and riding though. I love how it challenges my ability to get uncomfortable. Because whether if you haven't jumped a jump or you see someone go through a corner faster and you're like.

Sadaf Beynon (37:47)

Mm-hmm.

Ken Gembel (37:57)

You see stuff and you're like, I didn't even know you could do it that fast. Because when you're doing it, even if you look slow, in your mind, you're doing it as fast as it can possibly be done. So the beauty of it is, like when you see a pro and you're just like, don't even, I can't even fathom how they do that. And I had a friend that was a top level pro, you go ride with him and he would do something so much better, like coming through a corner and pick a unique line.

Sadaf Beynon (38:06)

Yeah.

Ken Gembel (38:21)

It would increase you would increase how you went through the corner, but still like his skill level so high, but watching that being able to learn and there's a there is a fear factor in some of that because there's a little injuries and things like that. So it makes me when I go into a business go look, we're just we're looking at how we can make the most product in an 8 hour shift or a 24 hour day. Use people better, reduce defects, change behavior. No one's going to get hurt today.

And so the things that make me passionate, because I like to snowboard, I like to wakeboard, they all have a little bit of that element too. So when I go into stuff, I look at it through that lens, like we're not going to get hurt today. We just got to be really intensely focused today. But part of what we do, and it kind of goes to the apparel brand, is I want people not only to have a better professional life, I want them to have a better personal life. And everything that we do in the business and making a business better will make your life personally better.

Sadaf Beynon (39:15)

Hmm.

Ken Gembel (39:22)

And so it relates to both. when I say go home, I want them to go home and go, you know what? I'm going to work on this because I can be better at this or I love doing this and get the most out of every day of your life.

Sadaf Beynon (39:37)

Yeah, it's very intertwined, isn't it?

Ken Gembel (39:41)

Well, you know, some people say I work to live. You know, I like to live. So I'm trying to do everything I do that I enjoy it. And how and I do look at it. I mean, it's honestly one of the there's a company I'm talking to now and I'm like one of the elements that we're missing here is. When your people learn how to do this, they have a new skill. That new skill should be put on a resume. I know your thought is I don't want these guys to leave.

Sadaf Beynon (39:48)

You

Yeah.

Ken Gembel (40:12)

And I said, lot of problems in a lot of companies are some people don't have a way to leave. Like, they're stuck there. And so you really don't get your best people. I like to learn how to build people. And if they leave, they leave. We've given them an opportunity. But I also know that when we find another person, we can run them through the training process.

And they're going to be equally as good and they're going to develop new skills. I don't want people to feel that they're stuck in a job for 30 years. I want them to think that they are doing things that will better their life and hopefully it's a better job, better income, better relationship with their wife, being a better parent, better athlete. You know, any way that we do it's to add value to all aspects.

Sadaf Beynon (40:44)

thriving.

I love that. I love that. Ken you mentioned, I just want to go back real quick to this. said, when you said to your dad, good luck. And he said, I already have all the Laboring Under Complete Knowledge. I've got that down. And you said that it stuck with you. Why is that?

Ken Gembel (41:09)

Yeah.

I like things that are, I don't know, cool maybe. Being in motocross, there's kind of an imagery of it. I wouldn't say that I was a punk when I was younger, but I really didn't appreciate education. I didn't see the true value in it. And I wish I would have listened to him earlier, the hindsight's 20-20. But I always like...

Sadaf Beynon (41:36)

Mm-hmm.

Ken Gembel (41:42)

I would hear people mention, that guy got lucky and this guy. And in the back of my mind, I always started thinking, yeah, that guy's worked real hard. Like his luck came from the effort that he put in that you couldn't see. But in my mind, and that's where I kind of, I connected to my buddy, his name was Brian Swink. He was a two time 125 Supercross champion road for team Suzuki. He was pro circuit Hondas.

It's Kawasaki now, but at that time it was Honda. He was their first champion, won their first race in Supercross. I remember seeing him when I was young and thinking, Brian was born with this ability to ride a dirt bike super fast and be fearless. As I got older and got to know him, I realized that, he rode enough that he had to put 125 clutches in his bike last summer. I used one.

He's riding a lot more. He's going through five gallons of gas at least a day. Can five gallons last me like a week? You know, at least, you know, if that and I just, and I started connecting it to that acronym my dad said, and I was like, man, all these motocross racers, they work super hard. And I was even traveling when podcasting first started coming on, I was traveling with a sales guy and he's like, Ken, he's like, these motocross guys are nuts. He's like, they have surgeries like they're getting their teeth cleaned.

Because they want it so bad, they work through the pain, they work through the injury because their goal is to be the top professional motocross racer in the world. And so they're sacrificing that comfort, even some of their health, like it's almost contradictory what they're doing to try to be that athlete, getting stuff, getting rods put in their leg or getting a shoulder plated and coming back in three, four weeks.

when they're still hurting, it still hurts. And working through it, and I think, but a lot of times motorcross racers don't connect that sacrifice and that the discipline that makes them good to business when they get out of it and they struggle a little bit. So that's part of the reason why you see in the background, our apparel webpage scrolling and you see the motorcross stuff is I've started working with some professional athletes, a lot more amateur athletes, because the window to be a top pro is very small.

So in that, I want them to know that, hey, try to be the best racer you can be. For some reason, in the end, it doesn't work out. All the things that are making you really good and really fast will make you really good in some profession that you do. And so that they can be all in on that thing that they're doing and know when it's done, they just got to shift their all in to something different. But they've already really learned they've got

Sadaf Beynon (44:08)

Mm-hmm.

Ken Gembel (44:32)

a journeyman's type of skill set from the athletics they've done. And I think hockey is another great one. We were at a hockey game this weekend for a playoff game for our town as a fantastic hockey team. And they were going to the state finals in the upcoming weekend. And I was sitting with a guy.

that I lift weights with a lot. he's like, he's like, man, hockey is a combat sport. Like we're sitting in row one and you're just seeing the checks and the hits and the falling down and getting back up. And it's such a great relationship to life, taking the hits, getting back up, pushing through it, instead of being broken, trying to break the thing that's trying to break you.

Sadaf Beynon (45:14)

Yeah.

Ken Gembel (45:14)

And

so I like talking to teams. I like the young people that are chasing this because if that's what you love, go for it. When you're done going for it. You're going to have learned things, whether it's through yourself talking to me.

Sadaf Beynon (45:24)

Mm-hmm.

Ken Gembel (45:31)

other people that you can do something different in the future. And that's what we try to build. I mean, that's what the luck brand is built on, trying to achieve the things. And I don't hate big companies. I just think sometimes large corporations can stifle creativity. So I try to inspire these younger people to take that adversity that you learn. And if you like hockey, well, you don't have to be an engineer. You can go market in hockey.

Sadaf Beynon (45:54)

Mm-hmm.

Ken Gembel (46:00)

I've met a lot of people that have had injuries that just prevented them from getting to a point where they would be a professional at some point. But it's like, you can still do the things you're doing and you can help and participate in that. It's a multi-billion dollar industry. Hunting and fishing between recreationally is $149 billion a year industry. I talked to a lot of kids that hunt and fish and I'm like, you can totally make a career in hunting and fishing.

Sadaf Beynon (46:15)

Mm.

Ken Gembel (46:25)

No one's just ever told you that because they told you you got to go be a doctor, that you have to be an engineer. Look, I got a PhD in engineering and I think if you're going to get a degree, there's not a better degree to get to prepare you for solving problems, adding value to a business. But these industries need committed, disciplined, and competent people to get into it. And so that's what I help.

Sadaf Beynon (46:45)

Yeah.

Ken Gembel (46:46)

them see I got a career day in a couple weeks I'm doing that I fully intend to talk to this because what I want kids to do is to be all in and be passionate and learn this now so when you get into what you want to do you learn how to execute a plan and follow through on the details and be successful. mean even my own business I'm working through that like it's not it's not seamless like I'm not I haven't hit Elon Musk status yet it's really tough but I love it I enjoy

what I'm doing. But the beauty of what he did is he shows you you can do it. You look at Jeff Beasley, yeah, is he a billionaire? He did. But you know what? At one time he was doing it in his garage. Now he is who he is and he made a bunch of great decisions. And so I just think and there's people you don't know that do that. You know, the town I'm in, there's a bunch of great businesses and entrepreneurs in here that have businesses that are either in the tens to 50 million or hundreds of million dollars a year in revenue business that you don't even know.

Sadaf Beynon (47:18)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Hmm.

Ken Gembel (47:43)

And so that's kind of the beauty of life.

Sadaf Beynon (47:46)

Yeah, it is, it really is. It's fascinating what you're doing, I love it. Ken, for leaders and entrepreneurs listening, what's the key takeaway from your experiences that you've shared?

Ken Gembel (48:01)

think in society in general, there's a lack of passion. Like we're just content. We're content with being a spectator versus being a participant. And it's even dangerous for me, because the easiest thing for me to do would be like, you know what? I'm going to go just work in a company, and I'm going to get a sizable income, bonuses, long-term incentive, company cars.

But I also know that I wouldn't really be happy. I would be doing it for the check. As much as I can convince myself to be passionate and do a great job, I wouldn't get the fulfillment I'm doing now. And that's where I hope the apparel brand, we really grow this into an international business that's inspiring people globally. And that it becomes an anchor, anchors them to something that will get them through when things get tough.

And so, but I think the first thing is, find something that you're passionate about, that you, like when you can't do it, it makes, I like to do the things I think that make me a better person. Find the thing that makes you a better person and go all in on it.

You know, and be passionate about it, live it. Surround yourself with people that live it. Push other people. Don't be intimidated by other people that are good. There isn't, there is an infinite amount of success out there. It's not limited. So, everybody can be successful.

You know, and I believe that. I think that, you know, a lot of times people try to hold people back. I mean, I see it in companies when they're interviewing people, that I'll watch someone bring someone in that is not the best candidate because they feel it's not a threat to them. I will 100 % hire someone that I think is better in a space than I am. I have a guy that...

Anytime I go into somewhere full-time, I bring the guy. He's the best guy I know. I'm pretty detailed. He is unbelievably detail-oriented. And I try to hire people that push me to be better and that challenge my thinking. I've done enough where I can look at stuff and bring up good data, but I like people that know their space really good, and then all of us are trying to lift the weight.

Sadaf Beynon (50:12)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Ken Gembel (50:30)

And so I think the couple things that entrepreneurs find what you're passionate about. Find the absolute best people to surround yourself with and then don't be intimidated by people that are great. Learn from it. I was just listening to the think he was the 99 or 2000 national champion, but he was also a three time world champion and he came over to the US. I believe it was in 1995. And he was on.

Sadaf Beynon (50:35)

Hmm.

Ken Gembel (50:58)

He was a couple years later, he was on the team with the best supercross racer ever. His name is Jeremy McGrath. And he's like, I wanted that guy to teach me everything he knew. This is a world champion, right? Coming to the US, which is, it's the strongest market and the most prestigious. It's called the national and US supercross championship. But he was humble enough to go, I mean, he's pretty good on a bike, right? To go, teach me everything you know.

Sadaf Beynon (51:24)

Hmm.

Ken Gembel (51:27)

and not be intimidated by him and hide from him. He's like, iron sharpens iron and he's 100 % right, but it's not a mindset. It's easy to get intimidated by someone being good versus saying, you know what? They are awesome and I'm gonna learn from them. I'm gonna humble myself and I'm gonna go talk to them. I think that's the other thing is in that perspective, I'll ask anybody. One, I like to compliment people, but two, I'm not afraid to say someone does something better than I do.

Sadaf Beynon (51:30)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Ken Gembel (51:57)

And I think in that entrepreneurship, you have to realize that people well know things. Different people that even work for you will know certain things better than you. You gotta humble yourself a little bit and listen, but it goes back to being passionate, surrounding yourself with great people and not being intimidated by great people.

Sadaf Beynon (52:05)

Mm-hmm.

I love that. Thank you, Ken. This has been such an insightful conversation. Thank you for sharing your journey and your experience with us.

Ken Gembel (52:22)

Well, I appreciate you having me on and I enjoy having these conversations. So thank you very much.

Sadaf Beynon (52:27)

Awesome. Ken, before we wrap up, where can our listeners connect with you and learn more about Luck Unlimited?

Ken Gembel (52:34)

Our Instagram is at Luck Unlimited Apparel for the apparel brand and there's Luck Unlimited. Either one of them you can get me or you will get someone on the team on the apparel side. But everything will get filtered back to me. I'm super engaged with it. Another way, another thing that we're doing is my youngest daughter Lexi started a podcast called Luck It With Lexi where she is interviewing up and coming.

Athletes that are in rural or areas that just don't get the exposure of the big suburbs So if you know someone that's working super hard that could use a little exposure DM us you'll either get me or Lexi My oldest daughter Lily, know also helps work with it. She is a fantastic anthem singer, but You know, it's a great way to showcase people and that's what we're trying to do is Give people a platform to get them out there and get them recognizing and chase down that goal

and succeed. We want to be the platform that people come back to and say, I seen John Kharowski talk about being on a football team that he won one game in high school and now he's playing collegiate football. Or the girl from Alpena that sung the anthem and figure skated is on the University of Michigan Synchro team that was traveling to Detroit multiple times a week to get lessons and

sacrificing a lot of things and getting good grades to get into the school. And so we want to be the platform because there's a lot of, we see a lot of kids hustling out there and a lot of people hustling. And that's what we want the brand to be tied to is that thing that gives you the discipline to stay with what you're doing because it's impossible to really do it by yourself.

So we're trying to create that network of people through the social media platforms and through the people involved with it that help you on the journey.

Sadaf Beynon (54:28)

Hmm, that's fantastic. I love how you've instilled the same values in your daughters. But yeah, for those tuning in, you'll find all the links and details in the description. We'll make sure they're all there. And that's it for today's episode. Ken, thanks again for your time and for sharing your story and your wisdom. It's been great.

Ken Gembel (54:36)

Thank you.

Thank you very much. appreciate it being on and everybody have a great week.

Sadaf Beynon (54:54)

And to our listeners, thanks for joining us. If you enjoyed this conversation, subscribe for more and more conversations at Open Doors create opportunities and shape the way we think. From Ken and from me, thanks for listening. I'll see you next time.

Ken Gembel (54:55)

And this is the